Silicon Valley has more power than ever, so why won't it speak up?
Katie Jacobs Stanton, former Twitter executive, Obama White House alum, and founder of Moxxie Ventures, joins Eric Newcomer to talk about what's really happening inside the Valley right now. They get into why tech leaders stayed silent when ICE showed up in Minnesota, what Sam Altman's Molotov comment really exposed, and why Katie thinks the current AI cycle is building on quicksand the same way the dot-com era did. Plus: her seat on Yahoo's board, what Kara Swisher's "take your space" advice looks like in practice, why Democrats need to worry about a lot more than AI, and the one portfolio bet she's most excited about right now.
Watch the full episode for an inside look at tech, politics, and where Silicon Valley goes next.
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It's called Throne Science and it's woop for your.
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Throne Oh, like a. Toilet, a toilet gadget.
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Yes. And you know you have situations
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in California too with Eric Swalwell, like like really like
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just don't cheat on your spouses like don't do it with people
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that work for you. Like how is that hard?
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Have you been sort of quietly doing climate investing at all
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in this period where it's sort of out of favour in the
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headlines? Yeah, so, Eric, it's no longer
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called climate tech, it's called energy.
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Tech. Or it's called like the RE
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industrialization. Of America.
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War against climate change. Does this feellikethe.com boom?
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Different. Katie Jacobs Stanton and I were
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one of the few voices in the tech industry when ICE was
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brutalizing Minnesota. To stand up and say that
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something had gone terribly wrong.
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Makes sense. She'd worked in the Obama White
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House, and like me, we've been deeply troubled by everything
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happening in the Trump administration.
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She's a former Twitter executive, so we dug into what
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Elon Musk has done into Twitter. She's worked at Google, Yahoo
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Color and the US State Department.
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She was once the person trying to get the government using
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Twitter. Now I guess she has some regrets
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of how it's panned out. She's a lone VC who says she
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still tracks diversity numbers and and wants to think about
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recruiting underrepresented founders.
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This is the Newcomer podcast. I'm Eric Newcomer.
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Please follow along at our substacknewcomer.co and enjoy my
00:01:26
conversation with Katie Jacobson.
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Twitter is very different, but also still very much the same.
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Like Twitter is still the place for breaking news, it is still
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the the place for public discourse.
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It is still the place where authenticity and distribution
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matter. It's a very different place in
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that different voices are louder and more powerful.
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Captured looms large. Yeah, like, you know, doge
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anything and like, and so like a lot of memes and the product is,
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you know, so more well, fine-tuned to different things
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to kind of amp you up. And I can feel it like I'm not
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following that account. Like where'd that account come
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from? And like, why is this, you know,
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post making me mad? And so it's a very a different
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kind of a product. A lot of people that I used to
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follow are no longer there. They're on different platforms.
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But I can't live without Twitter.
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Do you use? Blue sky and threads too.
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Or are you loyal to Twitter? I'm pretty loyal to.
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Twitter or you have I. Call Twitter some other call
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decks when I'm mad at it. I think Nikita, who you know,
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runs product. Who's amazing by the way, Like
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big fan. He he refer, he used tweet as a
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verb like in the last month or so.
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So clearly even people deep in X world can't help but it was such
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a good name. Like I I'm shocked that they
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abandon it. I mean, you were dealing with
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the media specifically, like using Twitter, right?
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I mean, I think there was this recent blow up about, you know,
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like the New York Times not being sort of, you know, a top,
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I don't know, creator account on Twitter despite sort of having a
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lot of followers. What do what do you make of
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that? I guess, like the Nikita
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argument was like they're just doing, they're just like putting
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out news headlines and expecting that to go off, which I guess is
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out of touch with Twitter, But that's also sort of what they
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do. I mean, they I think the
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particular fight was that they had this big story on Iran.
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It was like exclusive. It was clearly like relevant and
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the story wasn't like doing well on Twitter.
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So yeah, I guess I would push back on this idea that it's a
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great vehicle for news right now.
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It's a great vehicle for like angst about things happening in
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the world. But is it?
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Is it still good for news? I think both of those things are
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still true. I still think that the algorithm
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has changed quite a bit and has pushed down a lot of, you know,
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older, more left-leaning institutions and has pushed up
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more right. I definitely believe that is
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true. I also believe it's probably
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true that the New York Times may not be using it to the best of
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its ability. So I think, you know, it's it's
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complicated, dedicated. And I also think we have a
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general trend of power going from institutions to individuals
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like you're probably super successful on Twitter or X or
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any of these programs because like you do need.
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Substax, so it's a, you know, and, and turning down links like
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I think I have a strong Twitter presence, but it's always one of
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great anxiety because when I launched, even though I think
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when I launched what I probably have like almost 50
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followers now, maybe when I launched I had 20 ish.
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But it was enough that like you could be like I'm announcing the
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sub stack and people would retweet it and it was like
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willing to send people elsewhere.
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But now it doesn't feel like Twitter's as eager to, like, let
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you use your fame on Twitter to do other things.
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Yeah, I I feel that too. And but I can't live without it.
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I mean, it's a love hate relationship, right?
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And I mean, Twitter's like this cockroach of a product, like it
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just can't be defeated, like it is who it is in spite of itself.
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No matter who the leader is, right, it's still going to
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exist. I mean, Threads, it's fine, it's
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good. But I also don't want to go to a
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place that this feels very right on Twitter, Threads feels very
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left and blue sky, who knows? And.
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Like, well, I can't. Yeah.
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I feel like both blue Sky and Threads, my mom is like, you
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know, is a little bit to the left of me or she'd probably
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further to the left of me. She's on blue sky a lot.
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I feel like I'm always telling her if I spent a lot of time on
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blue sky, it'd probably make me more conservative because you
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sort of you, you know, I don't know if you're an independent
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minded thinker, you want to react, you know, to the dumb
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things you read. And so you see a lot of dumb
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conservative things. I think it makes me like, all
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right, I'm definitely, you know, not not with those people.
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But if I was on Blue sky, I don't know, watching sort of, I
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don't know, random cancellation circles now it'd probably, you
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know, shift me slightly to the right.
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So there can be weird dynamics with having a sort of one sort
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of political ideology in charge of a platform.
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Exactly. It's not healthy.
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And so maybe we just be off all of that, right?
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Maybe should talk to each other. Do you delete Twitter from your?
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I feel like I occasionally try and delete it and then I'm like,
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but I wanna know or I go on vacation.
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I'm like, I'm away from the policy is like, I'm gonna use it
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only on my computer, but then, you know, I'm away from my
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computer and I need it back. Yeah, I haven't deleted Twitter
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from my phone, but I've deleted others from my phone and I've
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actually moved Twitter from the first page of my phone to like,
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I have to really dig for it or search for it.
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So. And I think it just becomes a
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habit, right? Like when you joy, you get that
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dopamine hit and you're getting a lot of engagement, like you're
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inspired to do it again. And if you tweet something,
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nobody sends anything back. And like, I feel like a loser.
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Maybe we'll just take a break from it.
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So like I think sort of the reinforcement mechanisms of it
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just influence your behavior quite a bit.
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So for better, for worse. Right, Yeah, it's built to be
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yeah, somewhat addictive. You know, you're investing in
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the earliest of early stage companies.
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To what extent are you searching for the next Twitter or like,
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are you are you looking for a lot of social companies these
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days? Do you think there's much
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opportunity? What are you seeing on sort of
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the yeah, I'm sure everything is AI inflected, but are you
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getting any interesting? Like we'll be the next online
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sort of discussion platform type pitches.
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Yeah, to be honest, I have 0 interest.
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You're like run away. It's right.
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Don't. Build it patterns like, I don't
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know, like obviously I feel like we're due for something new.
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Like these things come in waves and there's going to be a
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different way. But I also think we have
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oversteered things. You know, we have kids who have
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your screen addictions and a lot of anxiety and they're anxious
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and the entire anxious generation, like having another
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social network I can't imagine is gonna make the next
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generation better. So I think we almost need to
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take a step back. Like how do you were talking
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earlier about how do we go outside?
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You know, how do we enjoy spring?
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How do we enjoy seasons? How do we enjoy each other?
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How can we have more humidity? Where's?
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The tech money to be made on that, you know, it's a sincere
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question, right? How do you, you know, your job
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is to sort of make money. You either, I guess you invest
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in other categories, but is there an opportunity to, yeah,
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find profit and steering people away from being on their phones
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too often? Maybe, I mean, I met a founder
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recently who's actually trying to invest in that.
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Like what are better therapies to help kids with anxiety,
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getting them off of their phones?
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I think that's really noble and very worthy.
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You know, there are some startups helping you find
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camping grounds and you know, how do you enjoy the outside
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more than there's a question of being venture backable?
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Is this a really good business versus like, you know, it's just
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the next entropic? Probably not, but there's still
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a lot of ways to make money and do good in the world.
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Whereas poor business people, you're like, you're at work
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already, you're going to be using the Internet, we'll fund
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Internet. Are you mostly investing in
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enterprise companies right now? Mostly, yeah, there's some that
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are, most of them are you know B to B in some capacity, but there
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are few that are B to C We invest at Moxie and mostly early
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stage companies AI for blah, blah, blah.
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You know the vertical applications of AI, everything
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is AI right now, right? If you replace AI with software,
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that's basically what it is. And, and at least we are
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generally investors. For me personally, I love AI and
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healthcare. There's so much opportunity,
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there's so many challenges. And actually the one, the one
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that I will share with you that is a direct to consumer product
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and you're not going to see this coming.
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So bear with me. It's called Throne Science and
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it's woop for your. Throne.
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Throne. Oh, like a toilet.
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A toilet. Gadget yeah, so looking down,
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obviously, but you know, now we have this this sort of tailwind
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of the personalization of how thick air, right?
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Like you have your oar rings, your whoops function, health,
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all these different ways that people are starting to change
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their behavior based off of data, right?
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Like, you know, I stopped drinking like I'd have a glass
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of wine and I like, this is all fine.
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And then my oar rings were like, don't do that.
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Like that's bad. It's gonna affect your sleep.
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And so I've made like my own personal changes and we invested
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in this company called Throne. And when our team first saw it,
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we're like, we'll never do this. What's the Tam of this?
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All right, what's the, I mean huge Tam because you know every.
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Everybody poops, as many children's books will take.
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Yeah, and but, you know, are people comfortable with this?
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And it's hardware. Hardware is hard.
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You're selling direct to consumer.
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That's hard. So we initially said, no, we
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never met this founder, Scott Hickel, who is so brilliant, so
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smart and so weird. Like you've got to be weird to
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like build your business, you know, a shit business.
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And like, and, and then also I'm like, he sold me.
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Like, this is kind of the future, right?
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Like here is data you literally flush away every day.
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What does it tell you? So it tells you things like
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hydration, how's your gut health?
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It can also detect blood. And that's actually the most
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important thing, especially with younger Americans.
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The only cancer that's actually growing is, is colon cancer.
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And you know, statistically, we, you know, live in this
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healthcare world, which says like, OK, you turn 40, you
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should have your first colonoscopy.
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Well, what if you had blood in there and you didn't see it and
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you didn't know about it? You wait till 30.
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Like how can you do earlier and faster detection?
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So that's one of the things that you can test for are.
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People paying for the device, yeah, or not.
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Not health insurance or. Not health insurance yet and so
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you know the next steps are how do you get it to be HSA
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reimbursable, maybe get your insurance company pay for it.
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So these guys are so well. Hypochondriac first.
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It's perfect. It's.
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The most anxious, like whoever's really worried every signal
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you'll, you know, two St. Yeah, exactly.
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Totally, but. What's it called again?
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Sir, a throne. Throne.
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We'll send you one. Do you want one?
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Maybe. What stage business is it?
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Seat, seat, Yeah, so. How big is it?
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It's like a little camera, just. Yeah, it's a little camera.
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It's like this big and obviously points down.
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My husband was like, you're not putting out of the house.
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I like don't worry. And you know, it goes down and
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not up and and you know, when you go in, it's different for
00:11:57
everybody. So it'll just I'll know what you
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versus your wife. Versus your kid.
00:12:01
Tell it can tell. Yeah, Bluetooth, because
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everyone brings their phone. Oh, I see it.
00:12:05
It's. Kind of weird.
00:12:05
Yeah, fascinating. How long ago did you invest in?
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That a little bit less than a year ago and and one of the Co
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founders of woop is also a Co founder of throne, which is
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great because he has built this before.
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You know, he understands hardware, he understands
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consumers, He has his own health issue that has made this his
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life's mission, which is always so important when you find
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founders. So that's the only company we've
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done that's in healthcare and direct to consumer, again,
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because it's really, really hard, but I think these guys
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have a great job. What's your favorite non direct
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to consumer health investment right now?
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Well, it's like my. Children I don't have.
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Not your favorite, but one that's fun to talk about.
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I'd say like one that was recently in the news called
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Luminae, which is workflows for healthcare systems.
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They just announced A partnership with the Cleveland
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Clinic. Something like 25 to 30% of all
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healthcare system budgets go towards administrivia and you
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know, claims, prior auth, referrals, pain doctors, all
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these things. Awesome for AI, awesome for
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agents. And healthcare systems
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understandably are very conservative, right?
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They don't want to like let into any of these agents without like
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control. And this team is really
00:13:16
incredible. The founder grew up in southern
00:13:18
India coconut farming family gets a Rubik's Cube at the age
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of 12 years old, becomes India's national champion.
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The sets a Guinness Book of World Records for Rubik's Cube
00:13:29
like becomes this American dream story comes to Silicon Valley.
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And he's just great at solving problems, right.
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And so this became, you know, his mission.
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He was very interested talking to a lot of these customers.
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And so he they're just on their way.
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So it's really interesting to see, you know, both this founder
00:13:43
grow and solve puzzle and great institutions like the Cleveland
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Clinic that are like, we want to be on the forefront of, you
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know, if we can improve workflows, we can improve health
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outcomes. And so that's a direct
00:13:57
correlation. So they're working with a lot of
00:13:59
these healthcare systems, which is great.
00:14:01
And then one other favorite founder is Pharaoh's health,
00:14:06
which is doing they're really early.
00:14:08
This is maybe the most like charming founder you've ever
00:14:10
met. And having a British accent
00:14:12
helps, but they had worked with hospitals in the UK and the NHS
00:14:17
to use AI, machine learning, to look at patient safety data.
00:14:22
So meaning that if you go in the hospital to deliver a baby, you
00:14:25
don't leave with sepsis. And there are a lot of things
00:14:28
that you know, happen unfortunately, at hospitals.
00:14:30
And so another great thing for healthcare systems to automate
00:14:33
and not have nurses for let nurses work with patients and
00:14:37
let AI work with paperwork. And so, so this team, you know,
00:14:41
again, very, very early, they just signed their first contract
00:14:44
with a major healthcare system. So it's really exciting to see
00:14:46
in the next 5 years, Healthcare is going to dramatically change.
00:14:51
And so seeing like, what is that tech stack going to look like?
00:14:53
It's not just going to be epic, right?
00:14:54
They're going to be all these other systems.
00:14:56
I was watching a TikTok earlier this week and there was an
00:15:00
influencer, John Green, talking about his brother Hank Green.
00:15:04
Is that a lot of like, the good news happened slowly, right?
00:15:07
Like it's like, you know, you make these like incremental
00:15:10
improvements to human health and like over time, we're
00:15:14
drastically reducing the number of infants that die and people
00:15:18
that die and improving life expectancy around the world.
00:15:21
That happens very slowly. And the moment in time headline
00:15:25
is like, Oh my God, a school shooting or something terrible.
00:15:29
And that dichotomy just has a really I don't know how did you
00:15:33
yeah, I mean, you live that sum again from like being in Twitter
00:15:36
world and then also, you know, working in government, you know,
00:15:39
you're helping what the the White House figure out how to
00:15:41
use social media. You're.
00:15:43
Sorry about that. Yeah.
00:15:45
You grew up in a kind of worms. Does it seem innocent?
00:15:50
Yeah. I mean, I don't know.
00:15:52
The media is often blamed for for this phenomenon.
00:15:56
I guess I'm sort of articulating in a way that it's like human
00:15:59
nature and sort of the way things happen.
00:16:01
When you were in government and working on the tech side, did
00:16:05
you see answers to this of ways to make sort of positive moments
00:16:10
resonate? Or do humans just love like
00:16:13
negative moments? Yeah, I mean, you know, from
00:16:16
media, like, if it bleeds, it leads, right?
00:16:18
And unfortunately, people get drawn to this rubber necking of
00:16:21
terrible things that happen, but we have to change that.
00:16:24
Like, I mean, a part of it is human nature, but part of it
00:16:27
does need some intentionality. Like, how do we shine a bright
00:16:30
light on the things that make us great?
00:16:32
I mean, I think we saw that in the past week with Artemis 2.
00:16:36
What a moment, right? Everybody, nobody talk like it's
00:16:40
right, it's left, it's north or South or whatever.
00:16:43
Like that was a great time for all of us to come together and
00:16:46
see like look what happens when we apply our imagination, our
00:16:51
ingenuity, like our resources to learn and to explore and to
00:16:56
celebrate the win of these four amazing astronauts and see their
00:17:00
camaraderie and how the way how they talk to each other, how
00:17:03
they talk to us. Like we need more Artemis
00:17:06
celebrations of what we can do when we just focus on the prize
00:17:11
and the things again that can advance our society and.
00:17:13
Is that a matter of political leadership and you have to
00:17:16
create, I guess, in the real world, these actual moments that
00:17:19
people get excited about? Or is there a level of, I don't
00:17:22
know, social media savvy that can that can do it?
00:17:25
Yeah, it's, I think it's everyone's responsibility,
00:17:27
right? Like, I think we, we expect too
00:17:30
much from our politicians. I think, you know, I get how
00:17:33
people have given up. It's really sad, you know, that
00:17:36
we don't make it easy for good people to run.
00:17:39
And as a result, we don't have a lot of great leaders.
00:17:42
We do have some, which is great. We need to empower them.
00:17:45
But I think it's everybody's responsibility.
00:17:47
It's each of us. It's A tag and.
00:17:49
I agree with that. You're not saying directly, but
00:17:51
nobody wants to blame the electorate or like sometimes it
00:17:53
is like the news consumer and the voter has some culpability
00:17:57
and it's not always productive to like point it back.
00:18:00
And but yeah, sometimes it's like people, you know, people
00:18:04
get the politicians that they they vote for on some level and
00:18:07
get the media that they decide to consume.
00:18:10
Obviously platforms you know can can be regulated and changed,
00:18:14
but. Totally.
00:18:16
I mean, also, like, you know, it's easy to complain and, and,
00:18:19
and inflamed the rhetoric, but how many people who are
00:18:22
complaining actually ever served in office, have ever
00:18:25
volunteered, have served the military, have served their
00:18:28
government, right. Like unless you do it, it's
00:18:31
really like we we all have to step up.
00:18:33
We all have to shine a brighter light.
00:18:35
And it's sometimes it's harder to come up with the ideas to
00:18:38
like fix the world than I think people sometimes think
00:18:42
complaining online because sometimes I'm just like, oh,
00:18:44
what is what is the idea that you that somebody wants?
00:18:48
I don't know, it can be a little abstract.
00:18:50
One thing, you know, we both you, you know, spend time in the
00:18:53
Obama administration. I think both, you know,
00:18:56
democratically aligned. This week, Axios reported that
00:19:01
the DNC was telling its staffers not to use like, Chachi, BT and
00:19:06
Claude. I don't know if you saw this.
00:19:08
They said they can use Gemini. I don't quite get the balance.
00:19:11
But do you worry that there's this like, I mean, America
00:19:15
overall is very concerned about AI.
00:19:18
But then, yeah, I don't know where you see the Democratic
00:19:21
Party going with AI. Do you have a general sense of
00:19:24
like, you know how how you think this technology is being
00:19:29
received outside of Silicon Valley?
00:19:32
I mean, I think the Democratic Party has bigger things to worry
00:19:35
about than AI, honestly. Like, what is the message?
00:19:38
Like, what do you stand for? Like, who's next?
00:19:41
Like, how do we talk normally to the American people and not at
00:19:45
the American people? So I think the Democratic Party
00:19:47
has a lot more, you know, bigger things to, to really work.
00:19:50
On but in some ways populism is very of the moment and like
00:19:55
being anti AI, anti business, like anti tech is a path into
00:20:00
the into populism. I mean, it's not it's not what I
00:20:02
want, but if I were just to like to read the tea leaves and be
00:20:05
like, oh, what's gonna make for a sort of compelling campaign?
00:20:09
Also, if you wanted to attract some of the MAGA people, it's
00:20:12
somewhat bipartisan to hate the tech industry.
00:20:15
I don't know. Do you, do you see sort of a
00:20:17
populist wave? Coming for AI, we're already
00:20:21
seen sort of the data center resistance.
00:20:23
Exactly, I was going to mention that.
00:20:24
So I think you're, I forgot the stats, but there was a survey of
00:20:27
how younger people feel about AI to some like 30 to 40%, like
00:20:30
hate it. Like that's huge.
00:20:33
That's a big, big number. And even, you know, I have kids
00:20:35
who are, you know, in their early 20s and like they're also
00:20:39
even having a mom who like, you know, raised them in Silicon
00:20:41
Valley. They're like, I don't know, like
00:20:43
a little bit nervous and cautious.
00:20:44
And I think it's really interesting you see this in
00:20:47
Indiana where there's a local council and someone shot, you
00:20:51
know, at his house and left a note that said no data centers.
00:20:55
People are mad. And I think we need to listen to
00:20:58
that. And people are nervous.
00:21:00
They're worried about their jobs.
00:21:01
They're worried, I mean, will AI probably take away more jobs and
00:21:05
create them probably. And no one's having a
00:21:07
conversation about that. And I think we need everyone to
00:21:10
kind of have that conversation. Like, what does that future look
00:21:12
like? And also immediately, like, how
00:21:15
do we, we retrain the next generation, you know, to work in
00:21:20
the trades, how to leverage AI, how to be prepared?
00:21:23
I mean, I remember taking like typewriting class at school.
00:21:26
It seems like that's really aging myself.
00:21:28
They're like, obviously no one needs that anymore.
00:21:29
Like everyone grows up in these things.
00:21:31
I was clearly a few years later, but when we'd have what the
00:21:34
typing classes you have to do word puzzles or whatever, you
00:21:38
know you're just supposed to type to get clues.
00:21:39
And I just remember we'd memorized all the answers.
00:21:41
Like we could see right any sequence of blanks I'd like.
00:21:44
I know what the answer to this. I've done the same wrote work
00:21:48
over and over again. But yeah, I don't I don't Well,
00:21:51
like, you know, in New York right now, you know, there's
00:21:53
this fight over self driving cars and Waymo's pilot, I think
00:21:58
was not renewed. I just find, yeah, the the anti
00:22:04
self driving car position to be like abhorrent.
00:22:07
I mean it's. I agree, I love Waymo.
00:22:09
Right. I know it's amazing, but I mean,
00:22:11
if you're sympathetic on the jobs front, then there's this
00:22:14
impulse to slow down any technology that threatens jobs
00:22:20
and you know, other Uber drivers and truck drivers and everything
00:22:23
else that eventually face a threat from self driving cars.
00:22:27
And I just think ultimately, you know, we want to be a culture
00:22:31
that embraces progress. And I, I think anyone who's been
00:22:36
in a self driving car, I mean, especially for like the elderly
00:22:39
and people with mobility issues or, you know, and people just
00:22:43
care about safety and don't want drunk drivers.
00:22:45
Everything Like I, I just feel like it's insane that we've, I
00:22:48
think we're gonna look back and we're gonna be like, it's insane
00:22:51
that for, you know, 100 plus years, we let humans like drive
00:22:55
around in these like sort of big hunks of metal and like ram into
00:22:59
each other and like ingest substances and then get on the
00:23:02
road. I, I don't know, it feels like
00:23:03
it's going to be a weird blip, not the human way of operating.
00:23:08
I agree. I mean, there are these products
00:23:10
that are living and serving in the future, right?
00:23:13
Like same thing with Airbnb. I'm not going to, why would I
00:23:16
ever rent somebody's house? And now it's just part of the
00:23:18
fabric of how we travel. Same with, you know, Uber.
00:23:22
Same with Waymo. Once you're in a Waymo, you
00:23:24
realize it's safer, it's cleaner.
00:23:27
It's about the same cost for the elderly, for, you know, people
00:23:30
who have, you know, sick issues, you know, and need an extra
00:23:33
hand. Like Waymo is incredible.
00:23:35
I'm only in a Waymo when I'm in San Francisco.
00:23:38
I see this with throne. You know, it's early, but like
00:23:40
living in the future, at some point we'll look at the fact
00:23:43
that we sort of flush away all this data and not really analyze
00:23:46
it to inform how we're doing, You know, do we have a food
00:23:49
allergy? Like, you know, do we have blood
00:23:51
going on? Like, so these are the things
00:23:53
that, you know, this has regulation gone a little bit too
00:23:56
far in New York and not really thinking about the benefits to
00:23:59
all New Yorkers, just, you know, a certain category of people who
00:24:02
feel threatened. What what keeps you sort of, I
00:24:06
guess, excited to the extent you are about like the left and
00:24:10
liberal politics in an era where Silicon Valley is swung to the
00:24:14
right? Some of the things we're
00:24:15
touching on, like, you know, Democrats can be more anti
00:24:20
capitalist at times, more resistant to technology,
00:24:23
somewhat more skeptical to some of the company, you know, just
00:24:26
like less inclined to be like, oh, there's there's something
00:24:29
there. I don't know what, what, what,
00:24:31
what do you think is sort of the positive message and what
00:24:33
excites you about like what the American left has to offer right
00:24:37
now? I would say I'm excited.
00:24:39
I'd say I'm cautiously optimistic that that a new
00:24:44
generation of leaders are starting to evolve that are just
00:24:49
normal and sensible and understand the political
00:24:52
realities of what they're dealing with.
00:24:54
Like I look at Daniel Laurie, the mayor of San Francisco.
00:24:56
Amazing what a turn around, right?
00:24:59
Like. We we had him speak at the
00:25:01
Cerebral AI Summit and yeah, he was by far the most popular
00:25:04
speaker. I think we had all these CEO's
00:25:07
and, you know, it's like a sort of a politician that's like, I
00:25:10
appreciate the hard work you're doing in industry, but we need
00:25:13
to bring everybody along with us.
00:25:15
It's such a winning message. Yeah.
00:25:17
So like how is it that position? Like, he's just, he's in it for
00:25:22
the right reasons. He's sensible, he's centrist.
00:25:26
You know, he is very honest and direct about the challenges in
00:25:30
front and when things go wrong, to be straightforward about it.
00:25:34
Americans are just so sick of being, like, spun and lied to.
00:25:38
And, you know, we're gaslighted like nobody's business.
00:25:42
I feel terrible for younger Americans growing up.
00:25:45
And they must think like, this is normal.
00:25:47
Like, this is not normal. This is bad, you know.
00:25:51
What's not like growing up in sort of the Mac a year or people
00:25:53
have only sort of known Trump? Yeah, They've only known Trump
00:25:56
and they've only known this like, kleptocracy, frankly.
00:25:59
And they've only seen like these extremes.
00:26:02
And they're seeing the other side just kind of give up.
00:26:05
Like be like, it's too hard. I'm just going to do my own
00:26:07
thing. I'm not going to pay attention.
00:26:09
Like, you know, we'll wait another couple of years and
00:26:11
that's not healthy either, right?
00:26:12
Like we should encourage debate. Like we should encourage the
00:26:16
transparency and openness and looking at the data to help us
00:26:20
inform, like what is a better outcome for everybody in this
00:26:23
community? We're never going to be able to
00:26:25
please everybody, but at least let's be honest and direct about
00:26:29
it. And, you know, you have
00:26:30
situations in California, too, with Eric Swalwell, like, like,
00:26:33
really, like, just don't cheat on your spouses.
00:26:37
Like, don't do it with people that work for you.
00:26:39
Like, how is that hard? You know, like, no wonder people
00:26:42
are just sick of politics. We had Matt, I had Matt Mahan in
00:26:46
that chair. I don't know, 3 or 4 weeks ago.
00:26:50
I like him. I mean, now he's maybe second,
00:26:53
third place in the primary with Swalwell out.
00:26:57
It's not the most exciting message, like in an era of like
00:27:01
Trump. And, you know, I think Zoram
00:27:03
Amdani is doing like a pretty good job both in what he's
00:27:07
delivering and messaging. And, you know, I'm a built in
00:27:12
sort of mayhem supporter. It's like I like the tech
00:27:14
industry knows a lot of the same people.
00:27:16
I knew him like a decade ago. I it's not the most like flashy
00:27:23
message and it's just like, it's hard to win is a centrist
00:27:26
without some. You know, you literally have Tom
00:27:28
Steyer right now. He's gonna like, I mean, I don't
00:27:32
know why I'm laughing. I'm somewhat sympathetic.
00:27:34
But like, jail, you know, some of the people who worked in ICE
00:27:36
and use like, the power of power of California, you know, to go
00:27:41
after, you know, ICE officers. So I don't know, it's hard.
00:27:45
Have you? I don't know if you've donated
00:27:47
to Mahan or anything. I haven't.
00:27:48
Do you have a view on the race or who's left?
00:27:51
Not really just kind of watching it, but, you know, like, where
00:27:55
are the reasonable people? Like, how do we make it easier
00:27:58
for the reasonable people to serve more of their
00:28:00
constituencies? And, you know, just be honest
00:28:04
and straightforward and honorable.
00:28:07
And yeah, I haven't. I mean, the challenge is, I
00:28:10
mean, this is what I sort of pushed on him about.
00:28:13
I just sort of like kept coming back to Trump that it's, it's
00:28:17
hard to be just sort of like middle of the road when you have
00:28:20
to react to the stuff you described before, which is like
00:28:23
a kleptocracy and sort of just the, I don't know, degradation
00:28:28
of our government and culture. And so I, I don't know, I do
00:28:32
think you sort of need a politician who's pretty upset
00:28:35
about that and says we really need to like work hard to go
00:28:38
back the other way. And so it's hard to strike this
00:28:41
like, I don't know, super chill, like bring everyone together a
00:28:46
message when it we need some. I don't know, we really need to
00:28:51
work to to undo some of the damage that's been done.
00:28:55
Yeah, and especially in tech, right, it's a in California is
00:28:57
very tricky, right. I mean, it's the like the
00:28:59
largest economy in the world. Like I think of ranks like 4th
00:29:02
or 5th, whatever, but but an embrace of tech, but also, you
00:29:07
know, some distance from it too and making sure that, you know,
00:29:10
tech leaders understand their power and their influence.
00:29:13
Like you think about American superpower, but if you fold in
00:29:17
American platform superpower, NVIDIA, alphabet, meta, like
00:29:21
they're in the top GDPS in the world, right?
00:29:24
Like we have such an influence on the world, but we're not
00:29:28
elected. You're like, there needs to be
00:29:31
AI. Think a tougher conversation and
00:29:32
A and a more vibrant conversation with how we work
00:29:35
attack. We saw what happen.
00:29:37
The Biden administration didn't embrace a lot of these leaders
00:29:40
and as a result, they like went another direction and then they
00:29:43
got their feelings or they got mad and they're, you know,
00:29:46
whatever. And they went different
00:29:47
direction because they were just kind of they weren't listened
00:29:50
to. And I think we just need a
00:29:52
leader or set of leaders in California that are just going
00:29:55
to be, again, reasonable, thoughtful, honorable and
00:29:57
attentive to what are the advantages of these new emerging
00:30:01
technologies and what are the implications to, you know,
00:30:05
everyday Americans and and citizens around the world as
00:30:07
they emerge. Yeah.
00:30:08
What do you make of, you know, the lack of backbone, I guess,
00:30:11
in tech? I mean, we both were, you know,
00:30:14
incredulous, I don't know, morally outraged when, you know,
00:30:18
ice was, you know, killing people in the street.
00:30:21
And it really felt like a moment where a lot of people, you know,
00:30:24
in the business community in tech were were too silent.
00:30:28
You know, I I called Tim Cook a quisling at that point in time,
00:30:32
like, I don't know, we sort of moved on.
00:30:34
You know, I think, you know, Trump de escalated somewhat and
00:30:38
I guess the reaction was sufficient to get some change
00:30:42
there. It's not clear.
00:30:43
We're totally out of the woods with ice.
00:30:45
Maybe we've just moved on in terms of our attention.
00:30:48
But yeah, what do you make of sort of the lack of leadership
00:30:52
from, I don't know, the big tech CEOs?
00:30:56
Yeah, it was appalling. Like it was absolutely
00:30:59
appalling. And you know, and I think I, I
00:31:02
forget the timeline, but you know, maybe it was like a week
00:31:05
or a couple weeks earlier all the tech leaders were in DC,
00:31:08
right? And they're all sitting at
00:31:10
President Trump's table and all fanboying him, right?
00:31:12
And so they were all there. They had plenty to say.
00:31:16
And yet two Americans who are exercising their freedom of
00:31:20
speech and protesting against ice in Minnesota.
00:31:24
A poet, Renee Good and Alex Pretty, an ICU nurse who had the
00:31:29
bravery and the courage to protest, got shot and killed in
00:31:35
pure daylight. With all the video surrounding
00:31:38
it. It was clear as day and the
00:31:42
Trump administration calling them terrorists.
00:31:44
And it was one of the most disgusting things I feel like
00:31:48
I'd ever seen in my lifetime. And so, you know, I tweeted
00:31:50
something about like, this is appalling, this terrible and,
00:31:53
you know, these poor families. And and then I think you wrote
00:31:56
the right, you know, this amazing article.
00:31:58
And I wasn't totally paying attention at the time.
00:32:00
So I read your article that Jeff Dean, David Hornick, maybe a
00:32:04
couple other people, and that's it.
00:32:06
And like, everyone was silent. I'm like, how can everyone have
00:32:09
an opinion about, you know, these ridiculous things?
00:32:12
And I don't know, like if you have a platform and you have
00:32:15
this privilege, you have to speak up.
00:32:18
Like, tech is no longer neutral on things.
00:32:21
I mean, even Fast forward to this past weekend where we saw
00:32:25
Sam Altman's house attacked, Molotov cocktail.
00:32:30
Two days later, three days later, someone shot his house.
00:32:32
Terrible. That should never happen.
00:32:34
Nobody should live in fear. You know, no matter what they
00:32:37
do, if they're Sam Altman or, you know, Sam Johnson, like
00:32:40
everyone like needs to be respectful and safe.
00:32:43
And so that was terrible. But also, and everyone Silicon
00:32:46
Valley had an opinion like why that was bad.
00:32:48
They're absolutely right. That was bad and they should
00:32:50
speak out. But why this disparity, right?
00:32:53
Like we should, you know, speak out when we see things that are
00:32:56
wrong and, and we have this, I know we have all this power and
00:33:01
privilege, like we have to use it in the most constructive way.
00:33:05
Yeah, no, that's so well put. I mean, it does feel like they,
00:33:10
well, first of all, that, you know, it's strategic to them to
00:33:13
defend ACEO in the way that sort of being across the Trump
00:33:16
administration doesn't help them.
00:33:18
But I, I also feel like there's this sort of like class defense
00:33:22
where it's like the CEO, like me, I need to defend them.
00:33:25
But yeah, I was it's, it's a very dark contrast.
00:33:29
And you can see how countries slip into fascism.
00:33:32
It's like, oh, the business community does sort of line up.
00:33:35
They they see what they get out of the administration.
00:33:37
They play, they're experts that sort of playing the game on the
00:33:40
field. They're like, oh, these are my
00:33:42
incentives. And people just sort of drift
00:33:44
into it. I mean, yeah, it's, it's a dark
00:33:47
realization about, I mean, that almost gives them too much
00:33:50
forgiveness because it's sort of like, well, that's how these
00:33:52
things go. But yeah, I'd, I'd like to see
00:33:55
more leaders in tech. I mean, how much do you think
00:33:59
just like the political tide shifting will will sort of help
00:34:05
people find their backbones? I mean, if Democrats start to
00:34:08
gain power in like the midterms, do you see movement there or do
00:34:12
you see people starting to try to reposition themselves?
00:34:16
I think so. I think that there are, you
00:34:18
know, I'm on a bunch of tech threads, you know, signals of
00:34:21
people that, you know, are just being like, careful and watching
00:34:25
and are hopeful. I also feel a lot of collective
00:34:28
exhaustion. You know, we just live in this
00:34:31
frenzied world that every day like what is happening.
00:34:36
Right. I mean, the first Trump
00:34:37
administration, there was this sense like, we're going to
00:34:40
resist it, yes. And that will solve everything,
00:34:42
yes. And then I feel like people lost
00:34:44
all the will to, you know, resist, I guess, the second time
00:34:48
around because it's like, oh, it was a lot of complaining that
00:34:51
didn't do much. Right.
00:34:52
But I think you are starting to see, you know, groups like this
00:34:55
is too far, like Marjorie Taylor Green stepping up, this is too
00:34:59
far. Fascinating, right?
00:35:01
Like. Tucker Carlson.
00:35:03
Megyn Kelly. Like, sometimes I listen to
00:35:05
Megyn Kelly now. I agree with her.
00:35:07
Like, wait, what? What is happening?
00:35:08
And like, and so you're seeing people, I mean, the stuff this
00:35:11
past week against the Holy Father, like, really, we're
00:35:14
going to take on the Pope, the beloved Pope.
00:35:17
Like, that's insane. Like, especially with, you know,
00:35:20
you know, Christians and Catholics.
00:35:21
I grew up Catholic and man, would I love to have a family
00:35:24
reunion right now with my representatives and everybody
00:35:28
else. Like, you know, you know, he's
00:35:30
gone too far, like over and over again.
00:35:33
But I think more and more people are starting to feel it.
00:35:35
So you can and there are the cracks in there.
00:35:39
And I think it is a moment in time.
00:35:41
Like, again, how do we bring people more Artemis moments,
00:35:44
right? How do we, you know, who is the
00:35:46
Artemis candidate, you know, to help us, you know, heal some of
00:35:50
these wounds and go back in the world and heal these
00:35:53
relationships that, you know, he is decimated with many of our
00:35:57
allies. We just have a lot of work to
00:35:59
do. This this is a big question,
00:36:02
maybe too much to ask, but like if you had to say what like you
00:36:06
think the positive vision for like America should be like, are
00:36:10
you it's like sort of abundance, like grow, grow, grow.
00:36:14
Does that fully capture it because it allows this sort of
00:36:17
like, I don't know, it's just like build more tech companies
00:36:20
Or do you how how would you put like what we should be sort of
00:36:24
aspiring to and what the message you want to hear?
00:36:28
Yeah, I think, you know, again, because we have this unique and
00:36:32
amazing abundance of technology and resources and innovation,
00:36:38
and, you know, Americans who are the best of their game.
00:36:40
If it's in healthcare, if it's in economics, if it's in
00:36:43
construction, if it's in space, like that's awesome.
00:36:45
How do we leverage that for good?
00:36:47
And how do we make, of course, more Americans benefit?
00:36:50
But it can't just be just Americans.
00:36:52
We live in this global world where we're all interconnected.
00:36:56
How can we use our privilege, our power, our resources to help
00:37:01
you find earlier detection of cancer in treatments?
00:37:04
How can we ensure that we have enough natural resources for
00:37:07
everybody to benefit? How do we ensure that we have a
00:37:10
better, more protected climate? You know, we have a home in
00:37:13
Colorado. It has been 60 to 70° almost all
00:37:16
winter. There is no snowpack, which
00:37:18
means there's no water, which also means there are more fires.
00:37:22
And this is happening all over the world.
00:37:23
This is not just a Colorado or an American problem.
00:37:26
This is a, you know, like global problems.
00:37:27
So how can we leverage all the tools and the, you know, the
00:37:30
tools of the 21st century to address the challenges of the
00:37:33
21st century around the world? So that is my hope.
00:37:37
Well put. Climate is a funny one.
00:37:40
Yeah. I feel like there are two things
00:37:41
we never hear about, like climate and DI.
00:37:44
And I want to touch on both of the OR we don't hear about it.
00:37:46
We haven't heard about them in the last, I don't know, two
00:37:48
years. Climate.
00:37:51
Somebody was making the point to me literally at lunch before
00:37:54
this that because of the war in Iran, it's like you're starting
00:37:58
to hear like at least energy is a concern again.
00:38:01
It's like we need other energy sources.
00:38:03
So even if people because of, you know, the Trump agenda,
00:38:07
don't want to frame it in like environmentalism terms, they're
00:38:11
suddenly oh, yeah, we it's good not to just be dependent on
00:38:14
Middle Eastern oil. But yeah, I mean, are you, do
00:38:18
you seem, have you been like, have you been sort of quietly
00:38:21
doing climate investing at all in this period where it's sort
00:38:25
of out of favor in the headlines?
00:38:28
Yeah, so, Eric, it's no longer called climate tech, it's called
00:38:31
energy. Tech exactly.
00:38:32
Right. Or it's called like the
00:38:34
reindustrialization of America. Yeah.
00:38:38
War against climate change? Kill.
00:38:40
People with their solar panels. Yeah, exactly.
00:38:44
So there is kind of rebranding, right.
00:38:46
And I think that's really important and we have a number
00:38:49
of companies in our portfolio that are in that category and
00:38:52
they're crushing it. We have one company called
00:38:54
Overstory and it's AI for vegetation management that's
00:38:57
addressing that. We have, you know, a heating or,
00:39:00
you know, heating, sorry. Yeah, the heating planet.
00:39:04
And and as a result, we have more fires and utilities cause
00:39:08
something like 50% of fire or no, 11% of fires and 50% of the
00:39:12
economic destruction, right. So it's a huge, huge problem.
00:39:16
We see this certainly in California, Colorado in New York
00:39:19
has had fires like it's crazy. Anyway, so Overstory works with
00:39:22
utilities to help them use AI satellite data, all this other
00:39:25
interesting stuff to be able to get ahead of these things.
00:39:29
So which of their assets need to, you know, cut back trees?
00:39:33
Where should they reinvest things?
00:39:35
So, and utilities have adopted this like crazy.
00:39:38
We, we LED this around a few years ago.
00:39:39
They are now this market leader of grid resilience, So not
00:39:43
climate tech, grid resilience. And, and it is a huge business.
00:39:47
They are growing really fast. They're crushing their numbers
00:39:50
and, and it is so exciting to see.
00:39:52
So here's a great practical use of AI that is going to save a
00:39:55
lot of people's lives. It's going to save businesses a
00:39:57
lot of money. It's the company's actually
00:39:59
based on the Netherlands. The CEO is American.
00:40:02
And it's been we laugh about the words, but there is a degree to
00:40:05
some that is sort of what the Trump people wanted, right?
00:40:08
Like if you look at Dodge, they were literally searching for
00:40:10
particular words. And we're like, we don't like
00:40:12
those words. Like instead of soft words,
00:40:14
please use hard, tough guy words and like that.
00:40:18
So DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion, like how much is that
00:40:23
truly gone versus you? You think there are still
00:40:26
efforts going on that just like people don't want to talk about?
00:40:30
Yeah, there are still efforts for sure, which is great, but
00:40:33
people don't use them, right. And people don't talk about
00:40:35
them. People don't report on them.
00:40:37
I do. We send our investor updates
00:40:39
every quarter and I track and I report on how many of our
00:40:43
founders are, you know, black, brown, female, immigrant,
00:40:46
whatever. And so I think it's important.
00:40:49
And you know, we don't invest in companies just because they fit
00:40:52
a certain category, but I do want to make sure that we're
00:40:56
building products and backing founders that reflect the
00:40:58
customers that they serve. And so, you know, it isn't as
00:41:01
widespread as maybe it used to be, but I still think it's
00:41:04
important. It's amazing.
00:41:05
We live in an industry, you know, that loves to think from
00:41:08
first principles. Yes, yet first principles, but
00:41:11
yet they're totally socially reactive.
00:41:12
It's like you were doing not you, but everyone else like
00:41:15
doing DEI before. Now that it's out of favor, you
00:41:19
don't talk about it at all, yet you're a first principles
00:41:22
thinker. Like it's.
00:41:24
Yeah, the herd mentality on this one is pretty gross.
00:41:27
I. Mean ultimately, like do what
00:41:28
you think is right, and if you think it's right, you should do
00:41:30
it. You know, there's obviously a
00:41:33
lot of merit, a lot of data that suggests that, you know, diverse
00:41:36
companies and diverse teams will have better outcomes.
00:41:39
So the data is there, the feeling is there, the outcome is
00:41:42
there. So, you know, for us, we're
00:41:44
still going to do it. The sort of emphasis on it, like
00:41:47
were there any legal, like, I don't know, they've no you, you
00:41:51
feel like safe, safe doing it. I mean, come at me because I
00:41:55
report on that like you're. Just disclosing data around, you
00:41:58
know, yeah. It's just data.
00:42:01
And yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I think, you know,
00:42:03
sunlight is the best disinfectant kind of thing.
00:42:05
Like, you know, have the data, you know, be honest about what
00:42:09
that data means and you know, and hopefully use that data in a
00:42:13
really good positive way. Do you think sort of minority
00:42:17
founders and women are are getting less funding now?
00:42:19
Or what's your sense on how much sort of not talking about DEI is
00:42:24
translating into a lack of funding?
00:42:27
Yeah, it's still bad. Yeah.
00:42:28
Like I don't know where the. It was bad.
00:42:30
It is bad. It's still bad.
00:42:31
Yeah, like it's, I remember, I think it was in 2016, I was a
00:42:35
group in a group called Hashtag Angels, which was a group of
00:42:38
girlfriends. We're still very close to this
00:42:40
day. And we banded together to become
00:42:42
better investors and we started to see the cap tables of these
00:42:45
companies that we're backing. And we're like, look, there's
00:42:48
really not a lot of women and they're really not a lot of
00:42:50
under represented, you know, people in these cap tables.
00:42:54
And we worked with Carta to actually look at the data and
00:42:58
Henry Ward, the CEO and Co founder of Carta was great.
00:43:01
He was like, OK, I'll use our data science team and I forget
00:43:04
the exact stats, but it's something like 6500 cap tables
00:43:08
at the time. And only 9% of the capital went
00:43:12
to women. And that was across founders and
00:43:15
employees, early employees, VC's and, and maybe one or two other
00:43:21
categories. And, and that was terrible.
00:43:23
It's kind of what we thought it was, but at least we knew where
00:43:26
to start. And we get, you know, to always
00:43:27
ask questions going forward. Like, is it better or worse?
00:43:29
And I haven't seen the data since then, but I'm pretty
00:43:32
certain it's not much better sadly.
00:43:34
It is, you know, I program conferences.
00:43:38
You know, we have speakers. We're doing a voice event right
00:43:40
now, and it's like, yeah, we want more female speakers, but
00:43:46
we also want, like, voice company CEOs in it.
00:43:49
Yeah. I mean, it's the classic, you
00:43:50
know you don't. Want to be a great one for?
00:43:52
You, you do daily. Great.
00:43:53
OK, what is it? Tell me.
00:43:54
About it, so it's API for voice and audio, so it's a dev tool,
00:43:59
but you know. This is exactly what I was.
00:44:01
It's like, give me solutions, You know, I'll have people be
00:44:04
like, you need more women. And it's like, all right.
00:44:05
I don't know women. Give me a specific one and like,
00:44:08
we'll think about it. We'll see, You know, how much
00:44:10
money they've raised. I mean, the challenge is, yeah,
00:44:13
you, you want, I want, I don't want to call anyone out.
00:44:16
But one time, you know, we programmed, I mean, we've
00:44:19
programmed. Well, one of the women we
00:44:20
programmed was like, I'm shocked that I get to be included among
00:44:23
these other people. And you're like, you almost want
00:44:26
to be like, no, act like you're, you're supposed to be there.
00:44:28
Like we want, we don't want it to be sort of like you're,
00:44:31
you're the one that didn't sort of make the cut.
00:44:33
You're like, you're in the list, you're on the stage.
00:44:35
I don't know it it's it's it's a funding is somewhat different
00:44:38
than speaking in that we are sort of like tracking, you know,
00:44:42
the people before I don't know this is.
00:44:44
But I I think you're right. Like I remember once Kara
00:44:46
Swisher called me and asked me to be like speak on something.
00:44:49
And my kids were little at the time.
00:44:50
I was like, I can't do it. I'm really busy.
00:44:52
And she called me up and Kara has Kara like, she doesn't mince
00:44:55
words, right. And she was like, what the fuck?
00:44:58
You know, she was like, Katie, you need to take your space.
00:45:00
And I was like, what does that mean?
00:45:01
She's like, I'm giving you this opportunity.
00:45:04
Take it and like, don't sit back because you have to watch the
00:45:07
kids. Find someone else to watch the
00:45:08
kids, like do it. And like, it really stuck with
00:45:10
me. Like 1st, I don't want to be on
00:45:12
Kara's bad side because she could be mean.
00:45:13
She's so. Good at it.
00:45:15
You know what? She's literally I just saw on
00:45:16
the podcast she's. So good.
00:45:18
And like, and, and I respect her and I admire her.
00:45:21
And she has like, been in this arena for a long time.
00:45:23
And she has made such a positive dent.
00:45:25
And so, yeah, when Kara's Swisher asked you to do these
00:45:27
things, like, you do it. But like, she's right.
00:45:30
Like, take your space. And I think a lot of women
00:45:31
especially, you know, you might be early in your career and you
00:45:34
have kids. You have a lot of
00:45:35
responsibilities. Maybe you're caregiving for your
00:45:37
parents, too. And you're like, I can't
00:45:38
possibly do it. But if you're listening, saying
00:45:41
do it. Take your space.
00:45:43
Man, you need to Cara, Cara, you need to internalize this or I
00:45:45
want to ask Cara for advice on how she, like books such great
00:45:48
speakers. She's like, oh, I just, I just
00:45:50
asked them, you know? Yeah, no, there's a lot more to
00:45:52
it. She's so good at being like real
00:45:55
and like, you know, that you remember it and that it stands
00:45:58
out and that she was like sort of pushed through sort of, you
00:46:02
know, it's so easy, just like ask over e-mail and it's like
00:46:04
take whatever the answer. And she's, she's good at that.
00:46:08
Yeah, she might send a hitman after you too, so there's that.
00:46:11
It's like I have a long memory. Yeah.
00:46:15
Any other. So I mean, we talked through
00:46:18
health, we hit a little bit on energy.
00:46:20
Any other sort of interesting startup categories that you're
00:46:23
watching right now? Have you invested in any like I
00:46:26
don't know, foundation model companies?
00:46:27
Are you staying away from that category given all the money
00:46:30
going into Open AI and Anthropic?
00:46:32
Yeah, I think we're mostly staying away from that category.
00:46:36
You know, we're always looking for, you know, great companies
00:46:38
that are solving real problems. And that can be in, again,
00:46:42
healthcare, it can be in finance, it can be in legal
00:46:47
tech. So we have one company called
00:46:49
Spellbook, which is AI for lawyers, like, yeah.
00:46:52
And it's I mean legal tech, the most boring category that you
00:46:56
can imagine like several years ago.
00:46:58
And now it's like this race. It's so sexy.
00:47:00
So we have, you know, spellbook we invested in, which is only
00:47:03
two he. Threw a boy in investors.
00:47:05
He is that's. Funny, that's bridging.
00:47:06
I know two different political ends with the.
00:47:09
Spectrum on this project. I think he talked about it here
00:47:12
too. Oh, good.
00:47:13
Yeah. And he's a great company and
00:47:14
they're crushing it. And you know, this is a great
00:47:17
one. You know, their customers love
00:47:18
them and they're growing very fast.
00:47:21
They're based in Canada, so it's a great Canadian win.
00:47:23
We have another company here in New York City called, which is
00:47:26
an AI native law firm. This founder, I met her here in
00:47:29
New York at a New York tech event and she had just left
00:47:31
Cooley. And this almost never happens
00:47:34
when you're at an event, you talk to somebody and you're
00:47:37
like, this person has just something special.
00:47:39
Like tell me more. I think we're going to invest.
00:47:41
And the more I got to know her, like the more excited I got.
00:47:44
She's the winner. Like she was got in every
00:47:46
college. She she goes to Vanderbilt, she
00:47:48
becomes valedictorian. She was a Marshall Scholar
00:47:51
applies to every law school, gets in every law school, goes
00:47:54
to Harvard, you know, free ride all these things.
00:47:56
And like she just knows how to win.
00:47:57
And she's just so good. And so it's really fun seeing
00:48:00
like, you know, her and, and Scott from Spellbook, just like
00:48:03
grow these businesses that were not in like not in anyone's
00:48:08
imagination like 5 to 6 years ago and you're solving really
00:48:11
hard problems. The The Who, What was the
00:48:14
company of the founder? You were just.
00:48:16
Talking about, I'm sorry, it's called.
00:48:17
Soxton I'm sorry, what's it do? So it's an AI native law firm
00:48:21
and of course they have lawyers on the team, but.
00:48:24
Very involved now. Well, obviously Krosky has
00:48:26
raised a bunch of money in this category.
00:48:28
Yeah, yeah, they have and, and, but what Soxton is doing,
00:48:32
they're working with early stage startups, right?
00:48:34
And I see this all the time. It's such a big problem.
00:48:36
You see the startup and they're spending thousands of dollars
00:48:40
working with any of the major firms on incorporation docs and
00:48:43
thousands of dollars on, you know, their their safes, their,
00:48:47
you know, their price round notes.
00:48:48
That is not what they should be spending their money on, right?
00:48:51
And so they're going to need that money for compute and
00:48:53
everything else. And so Saxon does this at a
00:48:55
fraction of the cost and really fast and and that team is just
00:48:58
off to the races. So another New York winner for
00:49:02
you. So if you're a start up, go to
00:49:03
Saxon dot AI. What a What fund is Moxie on
00:49:06
right now? Fund 3.
00:49:08
So what? That's, that's, so you've made
00:49:10
it. You've made it to Fund 3, which
00:49:12
is always the sort of test for a new manager.
00:49:15
I don't know. We live in this world of venture
00:49:16
capital where Andreessen Horowitz, Lightspeed, General
00:49:20
Catalyst feel like they're sucking up so much of the money,
00:49:24
so much of the attention. Like what?
00:49:26
What have been the lessons you've learned trying to build a
00:49:28
new, smaller, sort of early stage focused firm?
00:49:32
And yeah, how do you sort of survive amidst all the giants?
00:49:36
Yeah, I think #1 is just stay focused, you know, play your
00:49:39
strengths. And so for us, it's, you know,
00:49:41
we look to invest 1.5 on 15, maybe up a little
00:49:45
bit or down a little bit. That means we also have to get
00:49:47
there really early. Can we compete with these $100
00:49:50
million seeds? Nope.
00:49:51
Like skip it. Like, it's really easy to get
00:49:55
this FOMO and just try to do these things, but the fun math
00:49:58
doesn't work. Like you just have to stay
00:50:00
really focused. You have to stay really early
00:50:05
and you have to be really fast. And so, you know, when I met
00:50:09
Logan Brown at Saxon, I met her that night and I sent her a term
00:50:12
sheet a few days later. And like, I needed to do that
00:50:15
before Andreessen or any of the other bigger guys, you know, saw
00:50:19
her and met her. And that's OK.
00:50:20
I mean, and found her right after this and trying to close
00:50:22
these deals as quickly as possible and also help them get
00:50:26
to the next level. Because if Andreessen and Lights
00:50:28
and all these other great firms like you at seed, I promise you
00:50:33
they're gonna like you even more at a when you have more product
00:50:36
market fit, when you have more revenue, when you have more data
00:50:38
to make a good decision. But it's a very much a
00:50:41
bifurcated market. Are you taking board seats ever?
00:50:44
No, it's too hard to scale. It's too early.
00:50:47
I mean, sometimes we do, we try not to because each fund will
00:50:51
have roughly 30 to 35 companies and that just doesn't scale.
00:50:55
So we always get information, right.
00:50:57
So we have as much information as the board members.
00:50:59
But you know, we're like, it was Spellbook.
00:51:01
We were, we actually sat on the board of Spellbook early.
00:51:04
And then Keith came, we're like great.
00:51:06
Like Keith is a lawyer. He's a very good VC.
00:51:09
Let him help you take it to the next level.
00:51:12
So there's a little bit of a pass the baton that happens.
00:51:15
You're you are on the board of Yahoo, right?
00:51:18
Yes, that one. I said yes too.
00:51:19
I had another like this podcast. I saw that with Jim Lanzone.
00:51:23
He was on this podcast. He's.
00:51:24
The best? How, what what do you make of
00:51:27
sort of the progress they've made and yeah, I don't know,
00:51:29
what do you, what do you think they've been able to do?
00:51:31
It is awesome. So you were talking to earlier.
00:51:34
Yahoo was the first job I ever loved and coming full circle to
00:51:38
work on this and the 1st. Job you ever loved?
00:51:40
It's like I was a banker. Not the first job I ever loved.
00:51:43
Definitely not that. One and then product
00:51:45
manager@yahooin1999yes.com.com. Mania.
00:51:49
Yeah. You know, Webvan, like it was so
00:51:51
great. And and it was funny because I
00:51:54
met Jim when I worked at Google and he was at ask Jeeves and he
00:51:57
was the biggest pain in the ass. Like he asked us the hardest
00:52:00
questions. I was like, oh God.
00:52:01
And nobody at Google knew how to answer.
00:52:03
And they were just, you know, try to push back.
00:52:05
And I was like, you know what, this guy is right?
00:52:07
Like I never want to be in the opposite side of this guy.
00:52:10
Like he is so smart and so thoughtful.
00:52:13
And so we became friends and stayed in touch.
00:52:14
And then when he asked me to join the Yahoo board, I was
00:52:16
like, what an honor. Like even though I never take
00:52:18
board seats, I have to do this and have a front row seat to,
00:52:22
you know, the the reimagination of Yahoo, it's been awesome.
00:52:27
He has up leveled every single part of that team.
00:52:30
He has really refocused the company.
00:52:32
Like what really matters, search mail finance.
00:52:36
So fun to see Yahoo finance still kicking around and it is
00:52:41
still a market leader. Like this is a beloved brand.
00:52:44
Like, and it's funny too. You look at Twitter and X and
00:52:47
it's got like it's been kind of punched in the face, right?
00:52:49
If you're like, I don't trust it.
00:52:50
I don't really like it. And then you see Yahoo, when you
00:52:53
talk to anyone about Yahoo, they're like, I love Yahoo.
00:52:56
It's. Funny, I mean, it has the burden
00:52:59
of like it's old or like people, you know, you know, I don't
00:53:02
know, 30 plus. It's like it's it's old, but
00:53:06
like I think you have a positive.
00:53:07
Yeah, exactly. People don't.
00:53:09
Have a negative association and then once you drill into
00:53:13
specific things that it does like finance, you're like, Oh
00:53:15
yeah, it's probably the best like way to get financial
00:53:18
information. Or obviously some of the like
00:53:20
fantasy draft. I mean, there are lots of
00:53:22
categories where it's still pretty strong.
00:53:24
It's so great. And I don't know if you've tried
00:53:26
Yahoo Scout, which is, you know, yeah.
00:53:28
Obviously he's a prep for. It, it's cool, like it's really
00:53:31
good and, and so you know, it's been really fun.
00:53:35
The Apollo team has been amazing, and seeing how you know
00:53:37
Apollo has, you know, helped contribute to the success of
00:53:40
Yahoo has also been really fun. Do you?
00:53:44
This is probably my last question.
00:53:47
Do you use like AI in venture capital?
00:53:49
Like do you think like how, how is it changing how you do under
00:53:53
capital or perhaps it's? Venture capital, it's great like
00:53:56
for us, and we're a very small team.
00:53:58
My partner Alex, he is the smartest person in the room that
00:54:01
never acts like it. He's a engineer.
00:54:02
He was head of engineering at Twitter, where we suffer
00:54:05
together and built together and he's great.
00:54:08
And he has integrated all these different agents and tools into
00:54:11
how we work so we can just move faster.
00:54:13
You know, how do we prep our day?
00:54:15
How do we diligence companies, how do we look at, you know, the
00:54:18
competitive set, you know, what are like better questions.
00:54:21
So like it has totally helped us just get smarter so we can spend
00:54:26
more time, you know, face to face with founders and really
00:54:29
understand them as human beings and making sure the marketing.
00:54:32
AI is good at like flagging startups that you might want to
00:54:35
invest in, or it's more of the prep once you're sort of
00:54:37
actually in diligence. Not at seed per SE, because
00:54:41
usually it's like the idea. There's like really not a lot of
00:54:43
data to crawl maybe on the industry.
00:54:46
Like what are the signs that the market is pulling an idea like
00:54:50
this forward or a product like this forward?
00:54:53
Why have other companies failed in the past?
00:54:56
Was it the right, you know, the wrong team at the wrong time
00:54:59
with the wrong idea? I don't know.
00:55:01
So it's good at some things, but not necessarily on the history
00:55:04
of the company. OK.
00:55:05
This is my last question. Yeah, does this feellikethe.com
00:55:09
boom. Different.
00:55:11
It feels similar in that there's such a frenzy and the prices are
00:55:16
rising so fast and so high that just don't feel sustainable and
00:55:21
you know it's going to crash and you don't know when and how
00:55:24
badly. So that is true.
00:55:28
But but the crash is coming and the gas is coming.
00:55:30
But like, so you're just kind of bracing but different that the
00:55:34
opportunity is so much bigger. Like it is so huge and nobody
00:55:40
really understands it. And it really has so much
00:55:42
promise, but it's so uncontrolled.
00:55:45
That is a bit scary. And so, you know, everyone's
00:55:48
kind of building on quicksand a little bit.
00:55:50
So how do we just make sure we're prepared for that and
00:55:54
setting it up for success? Katie, Jacob, Stan, thank you so
00:55:57
much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me
00:55:59
so honoured. That's our show.
00:56:01
Thanks for listening. Please like, comment, subscribe.
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00:56:05
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00:56:09
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00:56:19
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