I moved from San Francisco to New York, in February 2019, back before it was cool to turn tail on the tech mecca. Truth be told, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for San Francisco, but my girlfriend beckoned from Brooklyn.
I’m writing this from my flight back to New York after over a week in SF. I spent much of it in an Airbnb next to Mr. Pickle’s on Van Ness Avenue and then a few days crashing at a fellow tech reporter’s apartment in the Outer Richmond. I ate Mission Chinese and La Taqueria, drank at Brass Tacks and The Monk’s Kettle, and made it up to Calistoga for a picturesque vineyard wedding.
But did I spend any time working for you, dear reader?
Yes, not to worry. I spent my days shuttling from South Park to the Presidio, catching up with venture capitalists, founders, tech media insiders, and senior tech executives. And I spent my nights getting drunk with them, eager for looser lips.
Here are my key immediate takeaways:
* One source told me that even Insight Partners — which announced a $20 billion fund in February — has decided to seriously slow down big late stage private investments. Until recently, Insight looked like one of the last holdouts when it came to doing late stage deals even as the market unraveled. But now, like pretty much everyone else, it’s mostly focused on its existing portfolio.
* VC advice on the downturn — even Sequoia Capital’s presentation to founders — has felt too much like content marketing. For some startup CEOs it can feel a bit like you’re the goody two-shoes, “A” student in the classroom, when the teacher reprimands everyone. You think the rebuke applies to you, but really the message is meant for the troublemakers. But it’s the most diligent among us that take these admonitions personally. Founders need advice specific to their company.
* There’s a sense that there have been many software engineers who have been overpromoted in the bull cycle and that this downturn could force some coders to reset their expectations about their appropriate rank and pay.
* I spent much of my time asking sources what the overarching, thematic story of the downturn would be. One venture capitalist gave me my favorite answer: He argued that we’d look back on this downturn as a story of the perfect storm between retail and professional investor excesses. On the retail side, we saw the rise of Robinhood and Coinbase, and r/wallstreetbets trades on Kodak and GameStop. On the professional side, we saw firms like SoftBank and Tiger go so, so long without enough diligence to back it up.
* If I had to name a couple companies/firms that I think are most likely to represent this downturn, right now I’d name Instacart, Coinbase, Robinhood, GoPuff, Bird, Tesla, Tiger, and SoftBank. Though, right now, I think increasingly crypto is looking like it will be the category most associated with this cycle’s excesses.
* There’s been a lot of envy in traditional startup world of people who went over to the the crypto dark side. Now there’s all sorts of schadenfreude going on as crypto prices plummet. Some VCs are starting to admit (mostly in private) that they never really believed in crypto. Still, there’s so much money. Just as I was leaving the city, Coinbase announced that it was brutally laying off 18% of its staff, locking them out of their emails before they even had time to say goodbye.
* We’re overdue for a reckoning over who screwed over credulous investors with implausible SPAC deals. ~cough~ Chamath ~ cough ~ At least, Brad Gerstner’s Altimeter led the PIPE on its own terrible Grab SPAC deal.
* Andreessen Horowitz still remains, probably, the biggest nemesis of many firms in Silicon Valley. Sure, Tiger blew up the startup world. But what Tiger did was so unlike anything venture capital firms were doing, so there’s less professional jealousy. There are whispers that things aren’t as copacetic internally at a16z as might appear from their highly choreographed public communications. It would seem that part of the explanation for the explosion of funds at the firm has been the explosion of egos. Instead of resolving interpersonal conflicts on the consumer fund, let’s just create a gaming fund. In that light, it’s pretty amazing that the firm couldn’t figure out a way to keep Katie Haun.
* Consumer investing across the board seems challenged. What’s going on over at Popshop, Lunchclub, Cameo, and Clubhouse just to name a few? I guess investors simply wishing consumer investing into being without a strong new thesis wasn’t exactly an omen for the sector’s inevitable success. (I will say that Whatnot and BeReal remain two consumer plays that I’m still following.) What will it mean for this generation of consumer investors? Benchmark’s next generation consumer investor, Sarah Tavel, seems to have made her best investment in business-to-business company Chainalysis, last valued at $8.6 billion.
* Speaking of Benchmark, the firm deserves some credit for holding firm on its strategy as other venture firms’ fund sizes got crazy. Sure, Benchmark probably could have made way more money if it topped up its own investments — but then it might be taking the heat that Benchmark favorite Altimeter is getting right now over its overexuberance. There’s money and reputation to manage. Benchmark has always made enough money to value its reputation. (That’s something Travis Kalanick, Adam Neumann, Nirav Tolia, etc. surely gripe about.)
* Last year’s hype around venture capital firms indefinitely holding onto private companies long after they go public is looking like pure bubble thinking. Sequoia’s timing on its all-in-one, hold indefinitely “The Sequoia Capital Fund” looks a little more like one of the excesses from the bull market. But limited partners seem too afraid to do anything to unwind the strategy shift that seems designed to enrich the firm’s general partners. (Reach out to me if you have off-the-record intel on this.)
* Investors are dramatically slowing the pace of their investments. These funds are going to last years longer than they would have in bull times. Multi-stage investors seem more inclined to double-down on their existing portfolio companies than to make new bets. Bridge rounds are on everyone’s lips. Still, I heard from investors who had made secret Series B and C investments in companies this year. It’s a good time to make a bet on a company that got away for a hype-y Series A round.
* Startup founders think prospective employees want assurances that their company is really worth what the company says it is. Good private unicorns are in a bit of a bind. Prospective employees are now automatically giving their equity offers a mental haircut based on the market downturn. So good companies have an incentive to reaffirm their valuations with funding rounds during the downturn — even if it otherwise might be smarter to keep their valuations artificially low so as to maintain room to grow should conditions worsen. (I wish employees would get better at assessing companies based on fundamentals, rather than the last tick fundraising round. Employees are basically begging founders to maximize for valuation, which then minimizes employee upside.)
* Some small-to-medium sized companies are shopping themselves to their rival startups but it’s not always clear why the competitor would want to buy. Why take on additional burn and headcount when all you might end up getting is leads on some new customers? Sure, you might do some venture capital firm a favor, but what’s that really worth?
* There are some cracks in up-start media world. The most obvious tremor is at BuzzFeed where the stock has sunk 54% in a month. Reporters have been leaving in droves. Meanwhile, The Information lost one of its top editors — Martin Peers. He’s long been a central figure over there. The Information’s up-and-coming venture capital reporter Berber Jin departed to the Wall Street Journal, as did Sarah Krouse who will be covering Netflix for the Journal. Stephen Nellis returned to Reuters. Meanwhile spirits seem strong at my former employer, Bloomberg. The ascendance of the player-coach editor seems to have people upbeat. Sarah Frier is leading big tech coverage and Lucas Shaw (who has been a guest on Dead Cat) is running the show on Hollywood coverage. And somehow Bloomberg just lured back a former star reporter who had left to join the startup ranks: Alex Barinka — who left Bloomberg as a deals reporter to help launch Imran Khan’s Verishop before going over to Stitch Fix — is joining Frier’s team as a social media reporter based in LA.
* Next week I’m in Toronto for Collision where I’ll be interviewing Uncork Capital’s Andy McLoughlin, Real Ventures’ Janet Bannister, and Left Lane Capital’s Vinny Pujji on a panel Wednesday called “Survival of the leanest: The importance of being capital efficient.” Then, less than an hour later I’ll interview General Catalyst’s Hemant Taneja about responsible innovation. On Thursday, I’ll ask “Has the tech bubble burst... again?!” in a panel with FirstMark’s Matt Turck, Lux’s Deena Shakir, and Neo Financial’s Andrew Chau. Expect the most interesting tidbits in this newsletter late next week.
Talking about Chesa Boudin on Dead Cat
My first meeting in San Francisco started with a tour of The San Francisco Standard, the Michael Moritz-funded local news enterprise. My old editor Jonathan Weber — once the editor of tech media dot-com icon The Industry Standard — is the editor-in-chief over at the SF Standard.
Weber, Dead Cat co-host Tom Dotan, and I met up for a nice dinner at The Morris in the Mission. After spending the evening discussing San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin’s recall, Tom and I convinced Weber to come on the Dead Cat podcast and talk about the Standard and San Francisco politics.
Tom thinks I’m going to get eviscerated by San Franciscans for my politics. This is something we’ve never seen before: a New Yorker opining on San Francisco local affairs. I did my best to offend conservatives and liberals alike, maligning the police while rooting for tech’s ascendant influence on San Francisco politics.
Weber makes the case for objective, follow-the-reporting local news and outlines the real issues underpinning the recall. He explains how money is simultaneously to blame and not to blame for Boudin’s recall. And he defends the Standard against its critics for its influential story on Boudin’s refusal to make drug arrests. We interrogate what Boudin’s defeat means for the future of progressive politics and the city of San Francisco.
Give it a listen.
Read the automated transcript.
Get full access to Newcomer at www.newcomer.co/subscribe
00:00:06
Welcome back on Sally, hey everybody, its latest episode of
00:00:15
dead cat, Tom here with Eric and our good friend, Jonathan Weber
00:00:20
editor-in-chief of the San Francisco standard.
00:00:24
This is a very San Francisco oriented episode.
00:00:27
I think all three of us are in SF as we record this.
00:00:30
This and Katie who wouldn't be is, is off doing January, 6
00:00:33
hearings coverage. So we've really focused in on
00:00:37
the San Francisco aspect of things in classic fashion, we
00:00:40
were out to dinner and drinks with Jonathan.
00:00:42
And then it was like, oh, this could be a podcast.
00:00:45
Come on the podcast, we're having a good time.
00:00:48
Maybe someone else can enjoy this too.
00:00:49
Yeah, it's fluid. And having a quite excellent
00:00:52
meal actually is one is want to do.
00:00:54
And so Cisco's despite all the bad press, you know, we still
00:00:57
have the best restaurants in this ain't right.
00:01:00
So mid-meal a very terrifying firework went off far too close
00:01:04
to the table that I don't know. It was an ominous sign of, you
00:01:07
know, San Francisco to come but anyway, we are Tom Katie.
00:01:12
And I all worked together briefly with Weber at the
00:01:15
information that so that's sort of the Genesis of the podcasts
00:01:19
and a piece of the missing link of that history.
00:01:22
Is now joining us Weber, you know, has been sort of a senior
00:01:25
Reuters executive and been back and forth there, but now has
00:01:29
left To run the editorial. What your the are?
00:01:33
You editor-in-chief of the San Francisco standard sort of a?
00:01:37
My yeah, it's backed, local news, upstart and head.
00:01:42
Let's give our listeners a rundown of what exactly the same
00:01:45
as go. Standard is and how it does fit
00:01:47
into Tech more broadly? Yeah, I'm sure.
00:01:50
So I'm San Francisco standard as a new daily news Operation,
00:01:55
their kind of a digital newspaper.
00:01:56
You could call it for lack of a better word.
00:01:59
I'll really try. You know, Siri you can do if you
00:02:02
really build a serious, local news organization from the
00:02:05
ground up, in the digital era and that involves a lot of
00:02:10
traditional journalistic. Things writing a, you know,
00:02:12
great stories and breaking news and going deep at all those
00:02:15
things. But then also involves being
00:02:17
very creative and Innovative on the distribution.
00:02:20
Side are taking advantage of sore, the full Suite of tools
00:02:24
and technologies that are available.
00:02:27
Now that, you know, definitely not in 10 years.
00:02:29
Go. So we're back by Michael Martz.
00:02:32
I've very successful Venture capitalists.
00:02:35
He has been a just an awesome person to to what worth is not
00:02:39
terribly involved day to date. But he is hurt, pursues, quite
00:02:43
sophisticated and media. He was a journalist before he
00:02:46
was a venture capitalist. And I think he really
00:02:49
understands, you know what it takes to her car to build a new
00:02:52
nature. Wasn't bad.
00:02:53
It's not are not an easy thing. It's too expensive and slow road
00:02:58
but our I think we'll have to Pretty good start.
00:03:00
We've got about 20 people, I think your parents World Chi
00:03:04
way. And we're still growing very
00:03:07
quickly hiring for an assault ships of any, any, our listeners
00:03:11
there are accomplished journalist, who I love with her
00:03:14
great, new census, committees organization, a gigabit all
00:03:19
situation where you have enough budget that you want to fill us
00:03:22
to reach out nor will I feel like it's the opposite
00:03:24
situation. Yeah, are was the high
00:03:27
journalist quotient audience? So yeah, you're pitching to the
00:03:29
right people. People.
00:03:30
And if a Terry and I don't want to spend too much time on
00:03:32
Moritz, but I do think what is interesting about his approach
00:03:36
to starting? This thing is we have seen very
00:03:39
wealthy is Mike a billionaire. You don't have to answer this
00:03:41
Weber but you think so Eric is he probably?
00:03:44
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, so we've seen the billionaire owners, you
00:03:47
know, like benioff buying Time Magazine Bezos, of course.
00:03:52
But they're all buying existing Publications some sort of as a I
00:03:55
don't want to say charity case but it's quasi philanthropic
00:03:58
effort. Whereas you know, It's like you
00:04:00
say was a journalist in a previous life and is sort of
00:04:03
building this from the ground up, which I think is an
00:04:05
interesting approach to see from someone wealthy, which I you
00:04:08
know, in once they're both means to the same end.
00:04:11
But I sort of like the idea of like let's let's not just by
00:04:15
this thing as like a side piece, but really you know Build It Up
00:04:17
in some way. Yeah well and I think it's it's
00:04:22
it's certainly important to him that this is not he does not
00:04:24
think of this is like a vanity project or a charity project or
00:04:28
anything like that. I mean that's why Why?
00:04:30
It is a, it is a company. It's not a it's not a
00:04:33
non-profit, it's her it's an LLC and he's not really doing it to
00:04:39
make money. I mean, he has much easier ways
00:04:41
to make money frankly than investing in journalism.
00:04:44
You know, software is a way better way to make money, right?
00:04:46
We all know that the turtles and more tech companies so he's not
00:04:50
in it, you know, for, for that. Exactly.
00:04:53
But I think that CERN his real motivation for starting, it is
00:04:57
just that he thinks that sir Jessica's city as lot of butter
00:05:01
and so it really needs to kind of get its act together.
00:05:04
And one of the reasons that it has like a problems is that the
00:05:07
media culture here has been that kind of week for a long time and
00:05:11
there's are not a lot of accountability journalism,
00:05:14
you've got a lot of investigative reporting and just
00:05:18
a lot of Journalism in general, any thinks that you know, that
00:05:20
good. Good journalist a room and are
00:05:23
reliable and trusted news sources are very important for
00:05:26
the city to help it function, better so that That that is
00:05:30
really the reason for the investment but I think that he
00:05:33
also believes that there actually is kind of opportunity
00:05:37
where I could see huge moment and transition in the Vu
00:05:40
business and the odd that a subscription models that
00:05:43
actually work are his real game changer.
00:05:45
So I think in the back of his mind he also our gets excited
00:05:50
about the business opportunity. So just let's get it to chase a
00:05:53
booty and we can sort of pepper and, you know, the local
00:05:56
journalism stuff along the way. I mean you I mean, it's sort of
00:06:01
already shows the access that this standard is getting given
00:06:05
that you did a big interview with Chase.
00:06:07
You guys had a huge profile of him.
00:06:11
I think quoting Willie Brown, so feels like reading the coverage.
00:06:14
You guys are like in the mix of sort of the local San Francisco
00:06:19
politics. And obviously, you know, Chase
00:06:21
is just just lost lost the recall.
00:06:23
So we're sort of taking stock of that.
00:06:25
I mean now that he's recalled, like, what is your reaction to
00:06:28
the recall or what? What is your high-level
00:06:31
reaction? People are wondering whether
00:06:33
it's been National story about Progressive, Democrats, or it's
00:06:36
a very particular San Francisco Saga.
00:06:39
Do you have a leaning one way or the other?
00:06:42
Yeah, I mean, I, well, I think, I think it's a little of both,
00:06:45
so their particular circumstances in San Francisco
00:06:50
having to do with the composition of the electorate
00:06:52
mainly, that make, it are very different than some of the other
00:06:55
cities say in Philadelphia or Chicago, or some of the other
00:06:58
cities that have Progressive. Is because we have a very small
00:07:02
black population is less than 6% of those City population.
00:07:06
So and we are very large share, Asian American population and so
00:07:11
they black and brown communities are I think it's been a Corvair
00:07:15
support for Paris, Prosecutor's of registers.
00:07:17
And really that base here and then it's same time, the Asian
00:07:21
American electorate, I really felt that he did not even take
00:07:26
seriously the rise in hate crimes against against Asians
00:07:29
and the way. Of the pandemic are and Trump's
00:07:32
blaming of it out by appointing China, for the pandemic, and all
00:07:35
that, and that caused a huge spike in and hate crimes against
00:07:38
Asians. And there is a filly Richie.
00:07:39
So did not are really address that are sufficiently.
00:07:44
So you had like very small black population and then a very
00:07:47
alienated and very large Asian population and that is
00:07:51
particular to San Francisco. So so there's that piece of it
00:07:54
which is specific to San Francisco but I think there is a
00:07:57
bigger thing which is that arm I think that voters here were just
00:08:01
really, really fed up with Kai. The prevalence of of low-level
00:08:05
crimes, which be Dean and explicitly deprioritize that was
00:08:09
sort of his platform but things like shoplifting and car
00:08:12
break-ins and and they and reduce drug use and drug dealing
00:08:16
and it is he's of Staff tweeted after they lost KH, a field,
00:08:22
footings Chief of Staff tweeted in 30 months.
00:08:25
We reduce the jail pop by 38%. We reduce the SFP.
00:08:29
ISM pop by 35%, we stopped charging kids, as adults and
00:08:33
reduce the number of kids in jail by 50%.
00:08:36
We have seen victims, forgive and those who harmed a tone, all
00:08:39
while violent crime has gone down.
00:08:41
We have already won. This idea that they were
00:08:43
clearing out the jails where they honest about that.
00:08:47
How open were they about the progressive agenda while they're
00:08:50
running versus now? Now, I think very explicit.
00:08:53
I mean, maybe, you know, they were, he ran out of Dakar
00:08:56
serration platform. I mean, that's just, you know,
00:08:59
Central To his both, his personal story, right?
00:09:02
Because his parents were imprisoned for decades and and
00:09:05
so yard. I mean, he was quite explicit
00:09:07
about that, that that's her centerpiece are very reformed,
00:09:10
prosecutor platform and and he stuck to his guns.
00:09:14
You know, like, so even even after, you know, he was elected
00:09:18
before the pandemic ride. So I think the pandemic really
00:09:22
changed people's priorities a lot and are created a kind of a
00:09:27
generalized anxiety and on Top of that, you know, even though
00:09:31
Street crime has not got up and so this is wouldn't been one of
00:09:36
the big arguments that crime has really got out.
00:09:38
But people feel that crime is got out and I think we did argue
00:09:42
houses while ago about this. I think are very good
00:09:46
explanation is that because people weren't out about during
00:09:49
the pandemic even though the number of crimes was lower the
00:09:53
chances of you being a crime victim were actually higher
00:09:57
because there are so many fewer people out about So he responded
00:10:00
to people's concerns about crime in particular, a street crime.
00:10:04
And and these see the retail thefts and discuss staffa and
00:10:08
the drug dealing. And frankly, and he responded to
00:10:11
that by essentially saying like, yeah, that's, you know, that's
00:10:16
just kind of goes with the program like he didn't really
00:10:19
take. Those concerns are very
00:10:21
seriously and I think the Erv, you know, the drug dealing, you
00:10:25
know, the drug issue. Also has come around like so
00:10:28
that the real Progressive Party View ultimately, is like drugs
00:10:31
should be legal or yo-yo only semi crimes, you know, really
00:10:34
but but with Sentra ephemeral, you know, there's so many people
00:10:38
dying and and you have, you know, parts of a city where
00:10:42
there's three cars are just like a mob of drug dealers and it's
00:10:45
very frightening to people. And then, you know, and he
00:10:48
hasn't really responded to that in a serious way.
00:10:51
And I think that, you know, people are like, dude, you know
00:10:55
it's your job to deuced try to do something about it.
00:10:59
Air drug markets and people dying right laughs.
00:11:02
Well, I can see, there are the responses sort of been like,
00:11:04
wow, it's a really, our fault, what a blame-shifting are.
00:11:08
So I think you know, he had a tough hand, the play.
00:11:11
I don't think he played it very well but it was a tough hams for
00:11:13
sure. I kind of want to move past the
00:11:16
autopsy on unchaste specifically because you know a lot of this
00:11:19
stuff whether you know there were legitimate concerns or this
00:11:22
was, you know, kind of pumps up grievances by the right-wing
00:11:25
kind of played out for the last couple of months.
00:11:27
But I am kind of more interested now in the The implications of
00:11:30
his loss and you know where the real Power Center is in San
00:11:34
Francisco because you know if you viewed this race directly
00:11:37
from what people were tweeting about in the people that I
00:11:39
follow were tweeting about there was a very outspoken Tech
00:11:42
contingent of people pushing the recall I think of, you know,
00:11:46
obviously David Sachs obviously Gary tan people with fewer
00:11:50
followers than them, you know. By the way we should also say
00:11:53
that sax doesn't live in San Francisco so you know but Gary
00:11:56
has been very involved in grow SF is Ben I'm not right.
00:12:00
I'm not delegitimizing. People like Gary, I am people
00:12:03
like David but what you know did you see in the success of this
00:12:07
recall effort? A, you know, how much would you
00:12:10
ascribe text largesse and, you know, a contingent within the
00:12:13
Tech Community to push for something like this?
00:12:16
That signifies that we are maybe seeing a more widespread
00:12:20
influence by, you know, wealthy tech people in San Francisco to
00:12:23
push their own policies. Well, I would sort of divide
00:12:27
that into two questions or two Two issues.
00:12:30
So the money from the tech people and then 7 some other own
00:12:35
kind of financial people and stuff.
00:12:37
That money was was essential to making the recalls happen.
00:12:42
So in order to get a recall on the ballot, you'd need 10% of
00:12:45
the voters, in the city to sign a petition, and that's actually
00:12:50
a pretty high bar if you're just kind of doing it by hand, you
00:12:54
know. So the way that you get a recall
00:12:57
on the ballot is you have paid signature-gathering You know,
00:13:00
see you see you spend, you know, a lot of money.
00:13:03
I don't remember the exact numbers, but either way, it was
00:13:07
definitely in the several millions of dollars, I believe,
00:13:10
you know to to basically collect the signatures to get the thing
00:13:13
on the ballot. And so if you don't have that
00:13:15
money, it doesn't get on the ballot and it was a very
00:13:17
organized and concerted effort. I mean I would be, you know,
00:13:21
going to Home Depot and see people with clipboards just
00:13:24
saying, Hey, do you hate pedophilia?
00:13:26
Just like, oh yes, I dare it. Like people around me to hear
00:13:28
that I do. Is that since I really would ask
00:13:31
that or yeah, yeah, they would basically be like, do you want
00:13:33
to get pedophiles back in prison?
00:13:35
And so it's a crazy incentive structure.
00:13:37
You'll be coasted. The signature gatherers are paid
00:13:40
per signature. Yeah, they don't know what
00:13:41
they're doing so they don't, they don't know where care about
00:13:45
the actual issues. They're just there.
00:13:46
There's a is why we can't make eye contact with other humans
00:13:49
anymore. You have to you know stare your
00:13:51
phones for your own self preservation we are and to me,
00:13:56
you know, like personally you know, I don't think that that
00:13:59
kind of I'm wearing like a bunch of rich people can, you know,
00:14:02
get a recall on the ballot in order to sort of, basically,
00:14:07
take another swing at somebody, they don't like, you know, and
00:14:10
that was sort of the dynamic, right?
00:14:12
I mean, he was hated from the beginning, a recall.
00:14:15
If you can, if you have the money to get it on the ballot,
00:14:17
it can be easier to win a recall than to win an election.
00:14:20
Because there are sure there is an irony that the recall system,
00:14:24
feels like a activist sort of progressive oriented California.
00:14:29
That system, is that wrong? The crazy thing.
00:14:32
Well, the crazy thing is that the whole initiative citizen
00:14:35
initiative process in California was started by Hiram Walker
00:14:39
back. In the, in the early 1900's, in
00:14:42
a way, it was heard, it was a popular saying it was a weird
00:14:45
figure for the people to take back control from the railroad
00:14:47
interest in the power companies and all that.
00:14:49
But the perversion of the process is specifically the paid
00:14:53
signature-gathering. So, if you'd if you disallowed
00:14:57
paid signature Gathering, it would be a completely different.
00:14:59
Landscape because then, it would serve as a check where like, if
00:15:03
they're really worried, like people were rising up and really
00:15:06
mad, you know, you wouldn't need to have, we need to pay someone
00:15:09
to collect those signatures right sewers.
00:15:12
It was an outlet for genuine popular.
00:15:14
You know, Uprising as it were at a mechanism for that, but but
00:15:18
with paid signature-gathering it just becomes another vehicle for
00:15:21
special interest to try to jam stuff through it on.
00:15:24
You see this of the state level, every every year you do tens of
00:15:28
millions of dollars, you know, Spanish, We got easier two-part
00:15:31
answer, you had, you know, the recall wouldn't happen without
00:15:33
the wealthy, sort of money, what I can do and then sort of, I
00:15:36
guess, the actual vote, right? And then yes.
00:15:39
And then when you come to the road itself.
00:15:40
So there's there's a, you know, and I've been having them at the
00:15:43
table car. I've reading argument with my
00:15:46
friend, at Tim read been who's the, ER, he was long time.
00:15:50
Are either Bay. Guardian.
00:15:51
He's now the editor 48 Hills and I are.
00:15:53
We've known each other forever and I'm real leftist.
00:15:56
Isn't he? NIMBY number one.
00:15:57
He's a very like anti-growth. So always use your kind of the
00:16:01
Tribune of a certain area, you know, lefted dresser faction I
00:16:05
guess and and you know he takes the view that.
00:16:08
Yeah, you know, this is just like the rich people, you know,
00:16:11
buying an election. Basically, I don't think that's
00:16:13
true. So again, like putting getting
00:16:16
it on. The ballot is one thing, but,
00:16:17
like, getting the votes is another thing.
00:16:19
And I think that the fact that people voted to recall him and,
00:16:24
you know, Bart by almost two-thirds, really does reflect
00:16:28
something other than Than you know the tech money.
00:16:31
I mean it it reflects a widespread frustration with the
00:16:34
government's job in in in dealing with with the city's
00:16:39
problems are you you know keep the open air drug markets
00:16:42
especially on and the Heat of the car break-ins to housebreak
00:16:46
gives third, you know, people are really really fed up with
00:16:49
this. You know, people don't feel safe
00:16:51
walking around the streets and, you know, the homeless issue
00:16:54
plays into that and so people don't feel safe and this is an
00:16:59
expression. That and you know, that's not a
00:17:01
tech money saying now there's a big question as to whether this
00:17:06
election represents a sort of a real like secular shift away
00:17:11
from Progressive policies. And you know we have in a
00:17:15
majority progress over the San Francisco as May Twisters be no
00:17:19
the two parties. Yeah, I have our listeners are
00:17:22
in San Francisco and have her new year and both are very
00:17:24
invested. As I'm happy to be here as yeah.
00:17:27
Cool. As you want on this.
00:17:28
Yeah, so the two Parties, you know, and the progressives in
00:17:31
the moderates, right? And and so the mayor's are
00:17:34
moderate and the the Board of Supervisors is controlled by the
00:17:37
progressives and so and then, of course, bradeen was Progressive.
00:17:40
So the there's a big question as to whether the, you know, this
00:17:45
reflects a rejection of the progressive agenda in San
00:17:48
Francisco in general or whether it's more spook, personally
00:17:51
redeemed. And I think that it does
00:17:54
actually represent a real turn against Progressive policies,
00:17:58
honestly. Well, it feels like The Gary
00:18:00
Tans of the world are gearing up to go after the progressives
00:18:03
now, right? I mean, oh yeah, do.
00:18:04
I mean, we had a story this morning, you know, Gordon, Mar,
00:18:06
who's the supervisor for the sunset District, which is
00:18:10
heavily Asian, and, you know, he's Asian American.
00:18:13
But he, you know, the Asian American politicians were the
00:18:16
most part against the routine recall, their also against the
00:18:20
school board recall. And both of those recalls had
00:18:24
huge support of the Asian community.
00:18:25
So there's a feeling that the Asian electeds are out of step
00:18:28
with their Mitch wants and so Gordon.
00:18:31
Mar you know is definitely in the firing line and in danger I
00:18:35
think of losing his seat. I mean, you know that that's
00:18:38
just a, you know, for what it's worth, but it's funny by the
00:18:41
way, Erica you bringing up half our listeners or in San
00:18:43
Francisco have for New York or whatever.
00:18:45
But, you know, which raises questions.
00:18:47
Why should anyone care about this particular recall?
00:18:50
And, and, you know, this primary election and the sense I got
00:18:53
from reading the national media, you know, all these National
00:18:55
reporters kind of flew in for a couple days and made.
00:18:59
Summations about the state of things in San Francisco because
00:19:02
it felt like there was this desire to use San Francisco as a
00:19:06
frame for what the country is going through released Democrats
00:19:09
or right now, labels who we know wrote, you know, big piece in
00:19:12
the Atlantic sort of frame ramp right?
00:19:15
San Francisco. Yeah, and sorry, I mean it's a
00:19:17
perfect, you know, but is that fair?
00:19:19
It's apparently it's a perfect little package, right?
00:19:22
You know, the most Lefty city in the country, you know, rejecting
00:19:25
its left Eda and in a, what does that mean?
00:19:27
For their gun. So that's it.
00:19:29
I'll be a storyline. I mean I think the question
00:19:32
really is, you know, does this represent a shift in the in the
00:19:37
it's really within the Democratic party.
00:19:39
You know, a shift towards the board moderate side of the
00:19:42
party, versus the more Progressive wing of the party.
00:19:44
Eric Adams, one in New York, I did, I feel like that sort of
00:19:48
well, yeah, everywhere you look. I mean, I just feel like the
00:19:52
exactly the sort of lack of interest in woke politics or
00:19:56
whatever is surging and that's gonna flow everywhere.
00:19:59
I mean, I think that you know and again mom's hand, damn it.
00:20:03
Well the pandemic is a total Game Changer.
00:20:05
You know that pandemic, just reordered people's priorities,
00:20:09
you know? And I think that frankly, for a
00:20:11
lot of white people, you know, our Obsession justice issues are
00:20:15
they may care about them but, you know, things shift and then
00:20:20
they care about them less than they care about.
00:20:22
Other things are doing crime and crime, and safety very high, in
00:20:25
the things that affect them. I mean, Tom, you have a whole
00:20:27
view Unser your unit. You never think San Francisco
00:20:30
politics are as liberal as presented or what's your view on
00:20:34
this? Yeah.
00:20:35
And this maybe it's just a reiteration of your buddy.
00:20:37
Tim Redmond's argument. Look, I grew up in the Bay Area,
00:20:40
not in San Francisco. So I don't have Nelly bowls,
00:20:43
like cred, you know about the, the Decades of policy in the
00:20:45
city, but my real parents live in Moraga.
00:20:48
Yeah. East Bay, like straight up white
00:20:50
flight City. Like I'm or town city of the
00:20:53
town, but the idea of San Francisco has some Avatar of the
00:20:58
furthest left. Politics.
00:21:00
I always think, is a bit contradictory to the actual
00:21:03
politicians that have risen out of San Francisco's, political
00:21:06
scene. You know, this is the city, we
00:21:08
were talking about a dinner, like this is the city that
00:21:10
produced Kamala Harris. It's the city of the produced
00:21:12
Dianne Feinstein. London, breed is the current
00:21:16
mayor you say, is a moderate, Nancy Pelosi, you know, the
00:21:19
Avatar of institutionalism is from San Francisco, so I find
00:21:24
it. So interesting that there is a
00:21:25
desire to present San Francisco as the This left, you know, most
00:21:30
Progressive city, which from a political standpoint, it kind of
00:21:34
goes back and forth. I've never seen this as a place
00:21:36
that was led by straight up socialists.
00:21:39
And so I'm curious as to why there's such a need to portray,
00:21:44
you know, what happened in San Francisco, you know, this last
00:21:47
week which absolutely was a repudiation of, you know, a
00:21:50
progressive da and, and what he stood for.
00:21:53
But whether there are truly larger implications withdraw
00:21:55
from it. Because I just don't think
00:21:57
Sarah's. Let's go to the best version of
00:21:58
that. There must be Progressive
00:22:00
cities. You could look at that than San
00:22:02
Francisco. That would show that sort of a
00:22:03
shift, but maybe you disagree. Well, you know, it's I mean,
00:22:08
it's certainly well taken that no matter its Democratic
00:22:12
politicians have have had the upper hand mostly in in this
00:22:17
sort of internecine in a war here between my attention
00:22:21
dresses. But I would, I would also note,
00:22:23
you know, from a national perspective that, you know, that
00:22:26
somebody like Nancy Pelosi, for example, you know, might be be
00:22:29
on the right wing of the party of San Francisco, but she's
00:22:33
still on the left wing of the party that Ashley.
00:22:35
I mean not, I mean, got the AOC wainwright's her.
00:22:38
So kindly as House Majority Leader.
00:22:41
She's not, I thought of that way, but if you look at her
00:22:44
record historically your, she's a very liberal Democrat.
00:22:47
And so are most of those people that that you mentioned.
00:22:51
So, you know, so I think when, when people Hold Up, San
00:22:55
Francisco during as this Avatar of like left-wing politics,
00:22:59
They're not really making the distinction actually between
00:23:02
like, you know, Dancy Pelosi after the 80 added and then
00:23:07
she's the dean I think. So there's an easy commingling
00:23:10
of, you know, just those kind of Democrats now, in terms of
00:23:14
locally. I mean, I do think that, you
00:23:16
know, kindly, for example, as a wrench of they were surprised
00:23:20
control of boys who prefer progressives control the Board
00:23:23
of Supervisors, you know, several of those supervisors.
00:23:26
Like, you know, it Dean Preston. You do is actually We a member
00:23:30
of the DSA of, it is Loretta social subnautica, you know?
00:23:33
And and I don't think they're very many other cities where
00:23:35
they're like, actual socialists in real position and I was a big
00:23:38
deal when he won, you know, he he he very narrowly defeated.
00:23:42
Someone that was slightly to his right?
00:23:44
So yeah. And it really is an atom only
00:23:46
with similarly with Chase obedient.
00:23:48
Yeah, yeah. So these are very, very Lefty
00:23:51
people, you know who got elected, Aaron, probably
00:23:53
couldn't go. I could most places and if you
00:23:56
look at the, you know, the policies that the city has
00:23:59
pursued, Regarding you know, any number of things, I mean I think
00:24:02
the you know, so homelessness you know is is an example.
00:24:06
So that you know, the city is sort of taken the view that you
00:24:09
know we're not going to prevent people from sleeping on the
00:24:12
street you know we're gonna kind of let people sleep on the
00:24:14
sidewalk when I could have Force.
00:24:16
We're not going to force people to get its shelter and was that
00:24:19
a chase a decision or who makes that decision.
00:24:23
Well that's no. I mean, that's enough that's a
00:24:25
mayor's last 40 minutes, advisors decision, you know, 22.
00:24:29
Give an example of what a time, a darned.
00:24:31
If you look at the almost as policy, so the city has
00:24:35
declined. So there's a fight within the be
00:24:38
back to a server, social worker, Community around homelessness.
00:24:41
There's an argument about whether you should spend money
00:24:44
on shelters versus whether you should spend money on permanent
00:24:46
Supportive Housing Ran. So, in San Francisco, they made
00:24:49
a decision that bike. We're not going to build
00:24:51
shelters base, we're are gonna have shelters and we're gonna
00:24:55
spend a year to force the hand use.
00:24:57
Ridiculous. Purpurea I was saying back then,
00:25:00
of course, you know that takes forever and, you know.
00:25:02
And so meanwhile, you know, you have 3000 shelter, beds of eight
00:25:06
thousand homeless people. And so, in that circumstance,
00:25:08
you actually are not allowed to really forbid people from CB on
00:25:12
the street, because you have to have somewhere for them to go.
00:25:16
Right? Where's New York?
00:25:17
There's a required lit. We're shifting into policy.
00:25:20
I and I do want to talk about the policy so that like New
00:25:22
York, there's a requirement to shelter, right?
00:25:25
I mean, enough terminal of that right difference between the
00:25:28
homeless policy, In the two cities, right?
00:25:30
I mean exactly. Yep.
00:25:32
That is the difference and, and it's a big difference, a very
00:25:35
important difference, and I think that it's one of the
00:25:38
things, you know, people look at that and say, well, that's a
00:25:42
Superlight back, that's a progressive policy.
00:25:46
That is a terrible pulse, you know, that there's bad, you
00:25:50
know, they made people look at that and they're like, what the
00:25:52
hell? Like, you know, I can't walk
00:25:54
down the street, right? But giving everybody someplace
00:25:57
to say every night that's a progressive.
00:25:59
C, 2i. I don't.
00:26:01
Is that really? I don't know.
00:26:02
Do we need to put that on a left to right or left left left
00:26:06
Spectrum to me. It does feel like giving
00:26:09
everyone in some places days like Progressive.
00:26:13
I see how it's not framed that way.
00:26:15
Well but forcing someone into shelters violation of their
00:26:18
rights. Yeah, I need the only thing as
00:26:20
can add because I think they are together, you know, from from a
00:26:22
policy standpoint with things for Brick really piss people
00:26:25
off. You know, is that armed is the
00:26:27
housing, you know, crisis. Yes, I which contributes Tom was
00:26:31
this and, and, you know, incredibly High, Ransom all that
00:26:34
stuff, right? So one of the obvious Solutions,
00:26:37
one of the reasons for it is because they're so housing
00:26:39
construction, right? Or very little very little and
00:26:42
the and again like so the progressive position is market
00:26:45
rate. Housing means judge vacation.
00:26:48
So we're going to oppose market rate housing, basically.
00:26:52
So the only kind of housing were going to support is affordable
00:26:54
housing red, so that is kind of the policy, essentially of the
00:26:59
progress. Is, although they would not
00:27:00
admit that white because it sounds bad, but but I really is
00:27:05
the policy. And so, you know, people are
00:27:08
like, that's crazy right now. We need wheel housing.
00:27:11
I come on, you know, I mean, this is very, very tight here.
00:27:14
We've got the shelter policy, not a booty in policy.
00:27:18
We've got your housing construction, not a butene,
00:27:21
ballsy. And the third that I would add
00:27:23
is, you know, not live. I mean based on my experience in
00:27:26
New York and having lived in San Francisco for many years.
00:27:29
It does feel like the police are the first, you know, first line
00:27:33
of defense I many of these problems and it does feel like
00:27:35
they're out to lunch like hanging out with each other
00:27:39
literally. I mean I see police.
00:27:40
It looks like they're just like hanging out with their.
00:27:42
It reminds me of high school lunch.
00:27:43
Like every every time like I just like you literally I've
00:27:46
yelled it. Please to like do something
00:27:48
about mopeds like improv, you know.
00:27:51
Anyway, this is New York problems but it just feels like
00:27:53
what are police doing? They all hang out together all
00:27:55
the time and insert, I would assume Budin wants the police.
00:27:59
Is to not be striking and to help him.
00:28:02
So so all these three things to me in some ways even though I
00:28:05
would probably have supported the recall make me sympathetic
00:28:09
to chase a because they're not, they're not, it's not his well,
00:28:13
no. Absolutely.
00:28:14
And and inciting, those policies, by the way, to be
00:28:17
clear, you know, I was not saying that, those are, those
00:28:20
are chasing. So I know you're saying but
00:28:21
that's the progressive part of the progressive policy framework
00:28:27
at people and Rebecca go. Really where he's getting great.
00:28:31
That's why he's getting repealed.
00:28:32
So, he's been the Fall Guy. Absolutely.
00:28:34
So, he's been the Fall Guy for all kinds of stuff.
00:28:37
He's blamed for many things that are not his fault.
00:28:41
And I'm, and that's, you know, that's bad luck for him.
00:28:44
And, you know, unfair, I guess on some where's below, you know,
00:28:48
somebody because holographic politics isn't fair, it wasn't
00:28:51
fair. Only one of the first point you
00:28:52
up so that is true that he he was The Whipping Boy you know,
00:28:56
for all kinds of stuff and frankly.
00:28:59
You know I mean the mayor you know he really took a lot of the
00:29:03
of the heat that would have otherwise gone in the mayor and
00:29:07
now that he's gone, you know it's not gonna be good for the
00:29:10
mayor right at all. Missing.
00:29:12
She sort of did she come down firmly one way?
00:29:15
Or the other on this, she didn't.
00:29:16
I mean, she didn't take an official position.
00:29:18
But, you know, it was pretty clear that she was not on the
00:29:22
same page. You know, they didn't work well
00:29:24
together and, and she sent things numerous times that
00:29:29
worse. Sorry seems to be indirectly
00:29:31
blaming web. So you make of this, the police
00:29:33
issue. I mean, we, you know, defund is
00:29:36
become, you know, obviously this flash point, but to me just not
00:29:41
politically just policy. It like whether you're funding
00:29:45
law enforcement or not like the police departments in these
00:29:48
major cities. Yeah, they just seem like
00:29:50
totally inept and I don't know where we are.
00:29:53
Any mayor has how to reform them.
00:29:54
I mean if Eric Adams can't and you know, I yeah, I know it is.
00:29:58
There it is. Very tough issue in and
00:30:00
certainly, the police deserve a lot of blame.
00:30:03
You know, that the department here has a terrible history of
00:30:06
racism and and lack of accountability and you know,
00:30:09
Boudin prosecuted a cop went on trial for beating not no longer
00:30:13
over 12. So going and I he would hear
00:30:15
that it being acquitted but you know it was like the first time
00:30:19
ever that asset PD officer had been put on trial for for
00:30:23
something and you know, which is kind of amazing.
00:30:25
So, you know that and the police happen kind of a strike and they
00:30:29
They've almost been explicit that like, yeah, we're not going
00:30:31
to bother arresting people if the da won't prosecute them.
00:30:34
And so they have been, you know, extremely responsible.
00:30:38
I think hearing and their whole posture ominous and they have a
00:30:43
huge rant answer formed around bigots a very difficult problem.
00:30:46
You know, they have a previous Chief who I know a little bit, I
00:30:50
have a guy named break sir and he was brought in on and then
00:30:54
you do this was six or seven years ago, I guess.
00:30:56
And then, you know, in and he was have a kind of a in Binder
00:30:59
like a guy who would come up in the ranks and had the trust of a
00:31:03
rank-and-file cops, but was also himself a very liberal guy.
00:31:08
Lived in the need for reform, had strong Connections in the
00:31:11
community, had lot of school work and he was like the kind of
00:31:15
guy that you would think, could really, you know, reform the
00:31:18
department and, you know, five bad shootings later, you know,
00:31:22
he was forced to resign. I'm so it's a, it's a bad, it's
00:31:26
bad situation, for sure. And I don't really know.
00:31:29
What their hero worked in solution is really.
00:31:32
I did. I do think well, what one
00:31:34
solution I would have is that, I don't think we spent should be
00:31:36
able to have labor unions in the way that they do it.
00:31:39
So, that would be one solution. I would hire that I'm like, oh,
00:31:43
we need an alternative police force.
00:31:46
Why call our police for is, I just feel like, you know, these
00:31:49
mayor's come into office, they're terrified by the police.
00:31:53
They need the course of apparatus of the state told on
00:31:56
to their power. Your biggest nightmare is just
00:31:58
like Ryan. It's somewhere that the police
00:32:00
aren't doing anything about. And so, then you totally
00:32:03
capitulate to them and really like, you know?
00:32:07
Yeah, they're, they're running the show more than you, and
00:32:10
that's not how Democratic societies are supposed to work.
00:32:13
And I mean, it doesn't make sense for these deep blue cities
00:32:16
to have pro-trump, fascist incline, police forces, and I
00:32:22
feel like you need local people who are ideologically aligned
00:32:26
with with the city. So, you know, I don't know.
00:32:29
I I am, I feel anti-progressive on some of these things, but
00:32:32
then on the police I'm like, I don't know.
00:32:33
We need much more radical solutions that I think are being
00:32:36
proposed. Right?
00:32:38
Right. Well, certainly in San
00:32:39
Francisco. I mean there's a you know, there
00:32:41
is a culturally conservative, you know, ethnic, do you know,
00:32:44
Irish and Italian and I are some Scandinavian and, you know,
00:32:48
Moulder, ask a communities are in the city that are better,
00:32:52
widen and pretty, conservative, and anger, Catholic heavily.
00:32:57
In many cases, him and the culture of the See some fire
00:32:59
department use, I kind of comes out of those communities and and
00:33:03
the Catholics who loves him. So, so it's not that the police
00:33:07
are local, exactly, but they are a dozen.
00:33:09
You have, they come from that, they come from a local from a
00:33:12
faction. You know, that sort of been
00:33:14
opposed to the, you know, the liberal ways of 57 sister.
00:33:19
I think a big political issue for the Democrats right now, is
00:33:22
the sort of failure of these deep blue States California.
00:33:29
New York to sort of really carry out like the Democratic agenda
00:33:35
in a true way. I mean, do you see that as a
00:33:38
fair critique or do you think States just like don't given
00:33:42
sort of the u.s. system? It's like California.
00:33:44
Can't realistically pass Universal Health Care or can't
00:33:47
really deliver on the federal agenda of the democratic party,
00:33:53
you know, I don't know how much do should we judge the federal
00:33:56
party based on the state performance?
00:33:58
Yeah, I mean that, You know, that is a, you know, a very
00:34:03
important question that I don't know that I have the crystal
00:34:07
clear answer to but but I do think that I mean, because there
00:34:11
aren't there a macro factors, you know?
00:34:13
Like if you talk about something like the housing crisis, you
00:34:15
know, you get like well it's Ronald Reagan's fault lied
00:34:19
because you know, he'd be funded, public housing and other
00:34:23
things and like you can't race GS G to that.
00:34:26
And so I was governor of California as president As Rosa,
00:34:29
you know. So there's many ways in which
00:34:31
you know, all these current Urban problems are really not
00:34:34
the foot. You know are a result of
00:34:36
national policies, really am? You know, income inequality of,
00:34:39
you know, these big things that series can't do anything about
00:34:43
having said that, you know, San Francisco in particular, are in
00:34:46
California or Gemma re I mean it yo has does have like big
00:34:50
government. The serious health system is
00:34:53
very budget for the city of Thirteen billion dollars a year
00:34:56
for city of 800 that is like promise. 10x, you know the
00:35:01
budget of most cities on a per capita basis and how even?
00:35:05
Now that's a lot of that is because of on it's both a city
00:35:08
of a county so that skews the comparison.
00:35:11
So Arabic but still in all you know that the city Herman here
00:35:15
spends a lot of money and the state you know there's the state
00:35:18
has like a big regulatory apparatus and you know we'd you
00:35:21
know, this is sort of the American version of him of a
00:35:24
kind of a big government place in and people look around and
00:35:27
they say this doesn't seem to be working there.
00:35:29
The wells, right? You know, is that really?
00:35:31
Is that because the politicians and their own suited leaders are
00:35:35
doing a bad job of it, or is it? Because there's really nothing
00:35:39
they can do about it. You know, that's the question
00:35:41
that's really hard to answer. But, you know, certainly is her,
00:35:45
you know, as a resident here and as a journalist here, I'll when
00:35:49
I look at the the city government and the money that's
00:35:53
spent on, you know, lots of different things.
00:35:55
And, you know, I kind of look at that.
00:35:57
Think well, you know, On the results.
00:36:00
I don't know. I mean, for that kind of
00:36:03
spending. Are we really getting the
00:36:04
results? I don't know.
00:36:06
And you could save me, you know, I don't really want to kind of
00:36:08
be dispositive on. You know what I think?
00:36:11
I mean, I honestly don't know, but but I do think that a lot of
00:36:15
people look at it and they're like, wow, you know, we're
00:36:17
spending a lot of money and we're not getting much for it.
00:36:19
I mean to bring it back to the media, which were obviously
00:36:22
always endlessly obsessed with ourselves and self-absorbed.
00:36:25
But but I mean, if I think about the tradition, You know, of the
00:36:29
media, I think it's fair to say at least in the time where, you
00:36:32
know, I've been a reporter. It's been sort of more left-wing
00:36:36
reporters, sort of scrutinizing, sort of a right-wing sort of
00:36:41
power structure, business world, political world.
00:36:44
I mean, I briefly worked for the Washington examiner, which was
00:36:48
sort of a conservative billionaires attempt to create
00:36:52
like a right-leaning sort of, look at Washington.
00:36:55
D.c. at ultimate ly failed. I mean, I can tell you all the
00:36:57
reporters. I'm sure we're more left-wing It
00:36:59
was like, pretty, pretty incoherent and sort of not
00:37:03
intellectually honest project, but so I've always been sort of
00:37:07
aligned with the, you know, sort of left leaning Democrat sort of
00:37:10
scrutinizing, the right-leaning system.
00:37:13
But do you think now, I mean, do you see yourself?
00:37:17
I don't know how much you want to like profess an ideology as a
00:37:20
reporter, but I mean, do you see that?
00:37:22
Feel that? Okay, now there's sort of like a
00:37:25
legitimate sort of reporting oriented, right?
00:37:29
Right-wing critique of of a left-wing San Francisco.
00:37:33
Well I mean I think there is although you know, I don't think
00:37:38
that I would not characterize. What we're doing is like a reg
00:37:41
Wing critique. I might not right, you know
00:37:43
where you were just I'm sure other edges towards interest
00:37:46
rate while other people certainly do, you know, right.
00:37:49
People make all kinds of assumptions about our political
00:37:51
agenda that are completely bogus.
00:37:53
Like everyone thinks they know what Mike Martz believes he
00:37:56
wants politically, and everybody is so completely wrong about All
00:37:59
that. And you know so there's there's
00:38:01
all these assumptions about our political agenda that our total
00:38:05
baloney. So you know now personally like
00:38:09
you know, I'm in charge of whatever slant we agreed we have
00:38:12
or don't have we really try to follow the reporting.
00:38:15
We got a lot of flak about a story that pointed out that
00:38:20
there had only been three convictions for drug dealing in
00:38:23
the city and 2021. And and that story was, you know
00:38:28
why harshly? Precise by Buddha supporters is
00:38:31
being, you know, misleading and which it wasn't.
00:38:33
I mean they you know they didn't like the facts frankly you know
00:38:38
there was a critique that like the framing of it because
00:38:41
basically the facts were he was like downgrading all the drug
00:38:45
crimes. Yeah.
00:38:46
Crying about to a lesser charge which you say in their story but
00:38:49
they obviously people want to limit a whole story to the
00:38:53
headlight and you know. Yeah.
00:38:55
It's in the third paragraph. Yeah, if you thought the
00:38:58
headline, Full story. You have to read all the way to
00:39:00
the third paragraph, right? So you know, I didn't feel that
00:39:04
was a fair critique II. Did you know, people were the
00:39:07
other criticism was that they were sort of an implicit
00:39:10
assumption that, you know, arresting drug dealers would
00:39:13
help address the overdose epidemic and that, that was
00:39:17
invalid. And, you know, and, and I mean,
00:39:20
I sort of take that point as far as it goes.
00:39:23
Ah, the story, of course, did not advocate of to go policy.
00:39:27
It was just a report on the record Out of the game.
00:39:30
But anyway, anyway, so there is, you know, so there's a
00:39:32
perception that that's like a right wing attack, you know, so
00:39:35
bouquet, I mean, I can't really, you know, do anything about that
00:39:38
kind of thing. But, um, you know, I think
00:39:41
actually, if you want a real, the Sorcerer of a right-wing
00:39:44
critique in a way, you know, Michael shellenberger, who read
00:39:47
this book called San Francisco and ran for governor.
00:39:50
And, you know, he's kind of a journalist in part.
00:39:52
And and so his pratik is sort of there.
00:39:55
I would that that would be a little bit kind of right-wing
00:39:58
for cheap of saffron. Screaming, I'm really popular,
00:40:00
right? Didn't he do pretty poor.
00:40:02
Well, he well he actually says, you know, and I saw him he did a
00:40:05
reading it, a book club that I'm a friend of mine who had invited
00:40:10
to and, you know, we talked about this and I said to, you
00:40:13
know, the because I read the book and the book, you know,
00:40:15
make some decent points but there, but the framing of the
00:40:17
book, you know, like, you know, San Francisco, you know, it like
00:40:21
doesn't exactly invite, you know, constructive discussion,
00:40:24
right? And it sort of is framed up for
00:40:26
like the red meat, you know, right wing Else who wants to
00:40:29
bash on San Francisco. And and so I challenged Michael
00:40:32
about that, he was like well no you know, it's not, you know,
00:40:36
don't that that word sicko. That was a deliberate choice
00:40:39
because it really is a sickness. So they so his his view is that
00:40:44
the liberal Progressive politics belief, in Progressive politics
00:40:49
is kind of a sickness is a disorder.
00:40:51
It's categorized in DSM. Yeah.
00:40:53
You know, in that like, you know, to me that's like a pretty
00:40:56
unhelpful right approach, right? Yeah.
00:40:59
Trying to sell books, it'll prompt you know because you
00:41:00
can't really you can't really have a conversation with
00:41:02
somebody who's telling you that you're you're sick for for your
00:41:05
rooms, you know. So little interested in the
00:41:07
conversation. I mean, yeah, to finish up on
00:41:10
the shellenberger thing. What?
00:41:12
I also found funny about trying to draw strong conclusions and
00:41:16
narratives from the election is that he was absolutely backed by
00:41:19
some high-profile tech people including David Sachs and Nellie
00:41:23
bowls. I wouldn't call her a
00:41:23
high-profile Tech person but you know, people that were outspoken
00:41:26
about San Francisco and you know landed like a Wet fart in this
00:41:30
selection. I mean, he got like three or
00:41:32
four percent of the vote in San Francisco.
00:41:34
And so the idea that there was some sort of Centrist corrective
00:41:37
wave, that was going to overtake all aspects of the election.
00:41:41
Just clearly didn't materialize with someone like him, but I
00:41:44
kind of want to pitch it forward a little bit now just, you know
00:41:47
as someone who spent most of his life living in Northern
00:41:50
California in San Francisco, you know, I like he's a group in the
00:41:54
East Bay but would come to San Francisco a lot and I sort of
00:41:58
see This period whether or not you agree with the results or
00:42:02
you know, are politically aligned with the results of this
00:42:04
election. There's no doubting that I feel
00:42:06
like San Francisco is Shifting that we are entering some sort
00:42:10
of a new era, the era that began with the Facebook Tech boom.
00:42:14
And this whole Silicon Valley, flooding of money into the city
00:42:17
sending rents astronomically high and all the kind of social
00:42:21
problems that it caused, a lot of not a lot, a substantial
00:42:25
number of people within that wave have left the city.
00:42:27
And so that Kind of social change that they brought is
00:42:31
reaching an end and I'm curious what you think.
00:42:34
The next wave is shaping up to look like, you know, obviously
00:42:38
it's still a hugely important area in Tech.
00:42:42
There's still, I mean, rents are still absurdly high, you know,
00:42:45
the city isn't like collapsed in any real way despite the way
00:42:48
people want to view it. But like is what sort of green
00:42:52
shoots of change? Are you starting to see already
00:42:55
in the city as we come out of the pandemic and the kind of
00:42:58
tech hegemony? That had to find it over the
00:43:00
last decade. It's just not as strong as it
00:43:02
used to be sir. One thing I would I would note
00:43:05
is that San Francisco is a very kind of neighborhood.
00:43:09
He's City and one of the things that's happening during and and
00:43:14
in the current, during the pandemic of the current period
00:43:17
is that the, you know, Walt downtown and the, the sort of
00:43:21
business districts and the tourist districts are, you know,
00:43:25
in in, in deep trouble, the the Roads are actually quite
00:43:30
vibrant. So and that and the neighborhood
00:43:33
business districts, and, you know, commercial activity and
00:43:37
some of those neighborhood business districts and and
00:43:39
commercial ads, and things like that or actually up actually
00:43:42
higher than they were previously.
00:43:44
And so - I'm in the mission, the other night.
00:43:48
He and even Renown, you go out to the Richmond of the sunset
00:43:51
at, you know, different angle sight.
00:43:52
You know, different parts of town.
00:43:53
Like it's a very different, it's a very different scene, I think
00:43:56
where you see, you know, they're still the That are amazing about
00:44:00
San Francisco, just the incredible beauty of the city of
00:44:03
them are kind of cultural diversity of Tolerance.
00:44:06
And the, you know, the weather and may, you know, about the
00:44:09
proximity to incredible outdoor things and you know, God amazing
00:44:13
Arts institutions like all those things are still here.
00:44:16
So I think it really remains a very appealing place to live,
00:44:21
you know, what happens with downtown and and office workers
00:44:25
coming back, you know, as her is a pretty Giant open question.
00:44:29
But my hunch is that the I am not a believer in the idea that
00:44:33
like, did the office is dead and no one's ever going to go to the
00:44:35
office anymore. Like I don't think that's true.
00:44:37
So I feel like we spent years, like, making fun of tech people
00:44:41
for. Yeah, I mean, taking their buses
00:44:44
and not being invested in the city and sort of not having a
00:44:47
real sort of political sensibility.
00:44:50
And I mean, sort of some degree. I'm I'm heartened that it feels
00:44:53
like there's a core of people who are actually invested in San
00:44:57
Francisco city. We've seen.
00:44:59
Now, the ascendance of Scott weiner, who is like, I'd say
00:45:03
like as pierrette Tech candidate is you can have.
00:45:06
So I mean, I don't live here anymore but as someone who
00:45:10
thinks they're ours, good in Tech.
00:45:12
I, yeah, I'm heartened that they've decided to invest
00:45:16
themselves in good politicians, and, and that people are doing
00:45:18
it sure. There's sacks who's gone, but
00:45:20
most of them are real Democrats, you know, and not particularly
00:45:24
ideal ideological, but want want to their optimizers, they want.
00:45:29
This to work, you know, and things are clearly not working.
00:45:33
And you know, I don't know having well-intentioned wealthy
00:45:36
people that was sort of the heart of the Bloomberg
00:45:38
Administration you know, you do sort of yeah, it can work.
00:45:42
Yeah. Well, that's yeah, no I think
00:45:45
you're right. And, you know, Bloomberg is good
00:45:46
example. You know where I think the city
00:45:49
was was well run under Bloomberg and and he he had some very
00:45:54
effective policies and you know from by you know most measures
00:45:58
the The city prospered either Bloomberg.
00:46:01
Now, at the same time, you know, there were a lot of people who
00:46:04
thought that his policies were, you know, essentially to, you
00:46:09
know, to capitalists I supposed and and not that really the
00:46:14
sensitive to their needs and poor people and, and communities
00:46:18
of color all that. So, you know, wasn't, it wasn't
00:46:20
a unanimous approval to have Boomer extraction, but I, I do
00:46:25
think that were probably, you know, having something closer to
00:46:28
that. I mean that's a little bit, you
00:46:30
know, bandar, previous mayor's under at Lee.
00:46:33
He was, you know, kind of the tech industry's candidate is
00:46:37
Mayor. You know, he certainly ran and
00:46:39
Ron Conway has been placing mayor's, you know, in says over
00:46:43
decades. Yeah.
00:46:44
No, that's right so badly, you know, he was a little bit like a
00:46:47
Mike Bloomberg, you know, in terms of his political
00:46:50
orientation and their kinds of things, which is so funny thing
00:46:53
to say because that Lee was a civil rights lawyer, you know,
00:46:55
he wasn't her. He was hardly at Wall Street
00:46:57
metal, like Bloomberg, but All right, and and ultimately you
00:47:00
know, was still I would say to the left of Bloomberg but he
00:47:03
governed as herb as a pragmatic. You know, Centrist essentially,
00:47:07
one thing we're interested in a lot is sort of like the view
00:47:10
view from nowhere reporting, that model of a newspaper with
00:47:14
sort of unbiased sort of neutral reporting.
00:47:18
What is your view today on sort of the role of neutral view from
00:47:24
nowhere reporting? I mean to a great degree when
00:47:27
way your view is expressed as bye.
00:47:29
Diaz by what you choose to cover or.
00:47:31
So, so certainly our choices. I want to cover here were
00:47:35
deflected. I mean, I'm personally a bad bad
00:47:40
person more than an idea londen. So maybe maybe the coverage will
00:47:44
be, you know, able to reflect that a bit.
00:47:46
I don't think you'll see it, you know, necessarily reflected heat
00:47:50
on the orientation of particular story.
00:47:52
But, you know, we're very much a bad about the recording and
00:47:56
like, there is, there's just so much that is just Seriously
00:47:59
unreported adherence. So you know we're trying to to
00:48:04
just kind of help people understand like what's going on
00:48:08
and they can it'll make their decisions battered and you know
00:48:11
I understand that you know the critique about the about the
00:48:15
view through nowhere but you know I I personally actually
00:48:19
gone back and forth over the course of my career on this
00:48:23
question. Like a how much how much point
00:48:26
of view? How much opinion how much take
00:48:28
is? Is is sort of necessary and and
00:48:31
helpful versus, you know, undermining of the naturalistic
00:48:36
commitments reporting. Really?
00:48:38
And and you know, I've I've had different views on that a
00:48:41
different tires are I don't think there's really a clear-cut
00:48:44
answer, but but it, but I do think that our education with
00:48:49
the standard is to, when people ask me like what side of you are
00:48:53
and you know, I'm like, well, we're on the side of the road
00:48:55
for you and we, we really do want to be on the side.
00:48:59
And and and this is actually good.
00:49:01
Illustration of the problem with the critique of the view from
00:49:05
nowhere, right? Is that if you decide we're
00:49:09
going out of you from somewhere and we're going to be why we're
00:49:12
going to have this position on different issues.
00:49:15
Well, then you're immediately, you know, then you're on like
00:49:17
one side and then the other side then you have no credibility
00:49:21
with the other side and you're just being the mouthpiece for
00:49:24
somebody and so that's like that really where you want to be.
00:49:27
But so it's a tough Vishu. But, you know, I think we can be
00:49:30
on the side of the reporting. People are going to have
00:49:32
different views about our biases.
00:49:35
You know, I feel bad for what about younger voters, who he
00:49:38
wrote a story about, you know, some people like to beat us up
00:49:41
about, you know, booty and, you know, the carrying the VC agenda
00:49:44
and all this nonsense. But then on the flip side, you
00:49:47
know, we write a story that I had the day or clear a homeless
00:49:50
Camp so that, you know, people think it was like too
00:49:54
sympathetic to the homeless people.
00:49:55
And so then we're like trip pilloried for being, you know,
00:49:59
On the side. I'm very, very likes to work the
00:50:01
rafts but any sport. Yeah, she's here to assess the
00:50:05
refs than it is to, you know, I don't know, solve the real
00:50:09
problem right there. Yeah.
00:50:11
I mean the cottage industry of like ascribing consistent
00:50:14
political beliefs to institutions has become again,
00:50:18
everything viewed through the lens of Twitter but it's very
00:50:20
rich. There's so much energy and
00:50:23
effort spent trying to like decipher.
00:50:25
What the true agenda is for a lot of these Publications and I
00:50:29
don't know, that's a whole complex issue, but I guess, just
00:50:31
in closing, I am very happy to see that there is Major
00:50:34
investment being put into local journalism that you guys are,
00:50:37
you know, have a lot of journalists out on the streets,
00:50:40
trying to uncover, new facts. And, and, you know, in a city
00:50:44
that has barely one newspaper, you know, with the chronicle,
00:50:47
which is always like on the verge of collapse.
00:50:48
It seems like economically, you know, seeing you guys out there
00:50:51
and I guess axios has some people.
00:50:53
And, you know, there's a lot of really great blogs in San
00:50:55
Francisco like Mission local and you can probably name a couple.
00:50:59
There's but all of that to me feels good whether or not I
00:51:01
necessarily agree with their political agenda or think I know
00:51:04
what their agenda is and then decide whether or not, I agree
00:51:06
with it. Well thanks appreciate your
00:51:08
saying that and I certainly would you know self-serving we
00:51:11
agree with that. You know, more journalism is a
00:51:13
good thing. There's way less of it here that
00:51:15
they're very used to be. So you know, I think we, you
00:51:19
know, we're making a substantial investment.
00:51:21
We're trying to to Really build some trust in me and be honest
00:51:24
to be honest and open a matter of porting and triangular its
00:51:28
people Ways that they couldn't, you know, kind of make sense of
00:51:31
it and for it to be useful to them and are, you know what I
00:51:35
hope? I hope we can do that.
00:51:36
I mean, the question of whether, you know, how much people care
00:51:39
like, you know, is a huge one. I think one of our big
00:51:42
challenges really is to is to get beyond the deeps lead.
00:51:45
A relatively small audience are people who already have a daily
00:51:49
news habit who already read, you know, already engaged in civic
00:51:53
affairs, that sir are a small percentage of their of the city
00:51:57
and we really want to find Ways to reach, you know, much about
00:52:00
Bradley that nice. Well our listeners can check you
00:52:03
guys out at SF standard.com and thanks for thanks for coming on.
00:52:07
Weber. It was great to catch up.
00:52:09
Thanks so much. Great to have you the great
00:52:11
start. You guys.
00:52:12
Good to see you. Thanks a lot.
00:52:17
So work on Sally, goodbye. Goodbye.
00:52:26
Goodbye. Goodbye.
00:52:28
Goodbye. Goodbye.
00:52:28
Goodbye.
