Dogfood Your Ideals (w/Ellen Huet) | Newcomer Podcast

Will Marc Andreessen dogfood Adam Neumann’s new real estate startup?

Will Andreessen be willing to run the same playbook for Flow, Neumann’s new rental real estate company? When is the last time, Andreessen — who called “renting a soulless experience” — actually lived in a rental? Is he willing to give up his $177 million Malibu compound for the shared amenities of a Flow? Andreessen doesn’t seem willing to embrace urban density in Atherton — he and his wife wrote a letter expressing their “IMMENSE objection to the creation of multifamily overlay zones in Atherton.”

On this week’s Dead Cat, co-host Tom Dotan observed that much of Silicon Valley’s upper crust seems unwilling to put their values into action when it comes to residential real estate: “They’re not going to dogfood it, right? They’re not going to be using their own products in order to fix this larger issue.”

Co-host Eric Newcomer replied, “The whole tech philosophy is dogfood your product — suffer through your terrible tech product that you’re trying to force on the world, and they won’t even dogfood the world that they want, which is a dense urban life.”

Eric's former open office neighbor at Bloomberg, Ellen Huet, came on Dead Cat to talk about Neumann’s new company and Andreessen’s nimbyism. Huet wrote about WeWork for Bloomberg, hosted a podcast about Neumann, chronicled housing opposition in Atherton, and now is writing a book about an alleged sex cult called “OneTaste.” She also spent many years living in an intentional living community in San Francisco. So you can fairly say that she has stared deeply into Neumann’s soul.

We start off the episode talking about the Andreessens’ opposition to new housing in Atherton. Then about halfway through, we get into Flow.

Give it a listen.

Read the automated transcript.

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00:00:06
Welcome Sally. Alright everybody.

00:00:14
Welcome to Dead cat Tom dote on here.

00:00:17
And then I'm Eric newcomer author of newcomer.

00:00:21
And with us we have Ellen, Hewitt, my old colleague at

00:00:25
Bloomberg. You can see your former

00:00:27
colleague at Bloomberg. I know I'm actually old I do.

00:00:30
I mean old like she's not your. I'm just slightly older than you

00:00:33
Eric, but not by that much. Oh, you are by like months.

00:00:37
We used to sit next to each other at the Office.

00:00:39
Doc, when people used to go to the office.

00:00:41
Oh, that must've been a nightmare.

00:00:42
It was, I mean, okay. You know what happened?

00:00:45
I would be on the phone with like, you know, Source or

00:00:48
talking to somebody Eric would get on the phone at the same

00:00:51
time, having his own phone conversation and the person I

00:00:53
would be talking to on the phone would be like.

00:00:55
Did someone else just join our call?

00:00:57
I hear a voice a character solo. That he would sound like someone

00:01:01
who had dialed into our call rather, that's what I was

00:01:03
sitting next to me. Yeah.

00:01:06
Is this a secure line? It sounds like someone else is

00:01:08
listening. You know, the other thing that

00:01:09
would drive me crazy about that. I'm loudest when I'm getting the

00:01:12
best information, like I'm loudest when I'm getting real

00:01:15
Scoops. So all of a sudden, everybody

00:01:17
started criticizing me, I'm like, I'm doing great work right

00:01:20
now, you know? I mean it was fucking

00:01:21
Bloomberg's, OpenOffice, but anyway, you know me not sitting

00:01:25
next to Ellen, was certainly a path that led down to me,

00:01:28
leaving, Bluebird. French Lee.

00:01:29
It's Like, when you know, I left San Francisco, but then when she

00:01:32
don't have to go to the office anymore, it's like, oh, why, why

00:01:35
I should work for myself anyway? Yeah, we're Ellen is one of the

00:01:40
foremost experts on. We work having written about it

00:01:43
as a be reporter and then creating, I guess, you say host

00:01:49
reporting and hosting a seven-part podcast about we were

00:01:53
called foundering. So Bloomberg has a like

00:01:57
award-winning, right? I have to some water.

00:02:00
Winning podcast. Yeah.

00:02:02
Bloomberg has a podcast series called Foundry where each season

00:02:06
tells a different story. First one was that we work and

00:02:08
I'm the host of down and second one, it's not like Tick-Tock and

00:02:10
other stuff, it's really good and I highly recommend you check

00:02:13
it out. I can vouch for that.

00:02:14
I mean you're just saying it because you were on it but

00:02:16
actually it is a very good podcast and with the Adam Newman

00:02:19
story and specific you kind of delve into the early Adam Newman

00:02:22
years which you know for those of us who are listening, who

00:02:26
just watched the TV show or was another podcast, you kind of get

00:02:29
you know, Young Adam Newman has its own story.

00:02:31
You get all the kibbutz. Here's, yeah, we sent a reporter

00:02:33
to Adam Newman's qubits, which was great and like, interviewed

00:02:37
people who knew him and all this stuff.

00:02:39
So that's really fun. It's the prequel.

00:02:41
It's like before Newman was Newman and I think it's a

00:02:44
valuable part of the story. Thanks Tom.

00:02:46
All right, so and we're going to go back a little bit and explain

00:02:49
some of the Adam Newman stuff but just to frame up why we're

00:02:52
having the conversation right now you know Andreessen Horowitz

00:02:55
has invested 350 million dollars and out of Newman's new company.

00:03:00
Flow, which is some sort of real estate company.

00:03:02
Marc Andreessen. Himself is taking the board

00:03:05
seat. Adam Newman is back.

00:03:07
We work. You know, is I checked earlier

00:03:09
today like a 3.6 billion market cap company after 10 billion

00:03:14
plus getting invest into that, we work is not what it once was.

00:03:17
But Adam Newman is is back. And then related to that we've

00:03:21
got sort of Marc Andreessen, you know, interested in solving our

00:03:25
real estate problems, but also himself NIMBY an extreme NIMBY.

00:03:31
Anyway, so that's the conversation and as background

00:03:35
for what it's worth. I am also now an expert octus, a

00:03:37
certain public housing debacle because I read literally every

00:03:41
single page of that like 270 page document.

00:03:44
So it's something you want to know about it, just ask great.

00:03:48
Tom, what do you want to start off with here?

00:03:50
I want to start off with Atherton.

00:03:52
Let's let's take a trip down to 80 and check out our leafy,

00:03:56
Peninsula suburb of the richest people in the Bay Area.

00:04:00
It is I think literally the richest the richest city in an

00:04:04
already. Overpriced over Stone.

00:04:07
Oh, it's the richest city in America.

00:04:09
I was Googling the names in this public comment.

00:04:11
Listen, like every single, like it was rare for someone to not

00:04:14
be like, have a Wikipedia page about how rich and influential,

00:04:18
they are Bruce Dunleavy that we work board member from Benchmark

00:04:21
apparent, right lives, right? It's just like the story.

00:04:24
Even enters the all these stories intersect because

00:04:26
obviously, Silicon Valley is a small world.

00:04:30
The African experience before we get into the story, but just

00:04:32
maybe the stage set a little bit for our audience is a lot of

00:04:35
reporters. Go down to atherton's to meet

00:04:37
with VC sources. It's pretty, it's pretty common

00:04:40
that you take the trip down to 80 in Atherton.

00:04:43
This is like the town where correct me if I'm wrong.

00:04:45
Marissa Mayer used to host her crazy like Halloween parties and

00:04:50
all the like like Google. ATMs would go there and she

00:04:54
would have like an ice rink in the backyard and rented like a

00:04:57
tiger and I'm making this up. So, you know, You're correct

00:05:00
from the stories that I believe. She also drove his in bony

00:05:03
around. The ice rink is like a famous

00:05:05
story with Marissa Mayer when she was the CEO of Yahoo.

00:05:08
Yeah, and then the other thing, I think of, in terms of

00:05:10
extravagant executive parties, there is Joe.

00:05:14
Lonsdale used to throw, this is the palantir co-founder and he

00:05:19
used to throw like an annual party at his mansion that I

00:05:21
think is also is that an Atherton?

00:05:23
That was Joe. Lonsdale is now fully in that

00:05:27
one. I don't know for sure but Yeah,

00:05:29
but I'm sure he lives. Okay?

00:05:31
He had a Game of Thrones chair. That was made for the weekly

00:05:35
Game Room. Yes, I remember the king of the

00:05:38
monsters. I've seen it.

00:05:39
I've seen, I didn't dare sit in it, but yeah, it's a real thing.

00:05:43
So, yeah, that's the kind of place we're talking about here.

00:05:45
It's the, it's, it's comical. In terms of its concentration of

00:05:50
what also, in terms of nimbyism, it has minimum sort of lot

00:05:53
sizes. Yeah, it has it has a the town,

00:05:56
the town like rule. You'll basically, is that you

00:06:00
shall not have housing density, that's above one house per acre.

00:06:06
So this is why people are so upset talking about enforcing

00:06:10
wealthy, you know, minimum yeah, making sure everyone's wealthy.

00:06:13
It's like it's expensive neighborhood and you need to be

00:06:15
able to buy. You're saying an acre an acre of

00:06:17
land. Yeah.

00:06:18
So basically the general understanding of Atherton that

00:06:21
has existed for decades is that this is a place where there are

00:06:24
not that many people, it's also a small town but you know

00:06:26
probably 10 people or fewer and You, you know, average house

00:06:31
advertised price. I'm sure it's like, in many

00:06:33
millions of dollars, I read an article that said it was seven

00:06:35
or eight million that makes total sense to me, and you end

00:06:39
up with these large properties, which means the houses are very

00:06:42
far spaced apart. And so, a lot of people buy it

00:06:45
if they're like rich and very interested in privacy and

00:06:50
wanting to have cut it this like Suburban feel professionally

00:06:54
their interest in destroying privacy, but personally, they're

00:06:56
interested in yes, right? You know, first and it's not, it

00:07:01
is a lot of technical. There are also a lot of like,

00:07:03
you know, it's like the founder of KK our lives.

00:07:05
There, there's a lot of like banking execs, Steph Curry and

00:07:09
his family live in Atherton, like Joel a couple.

00:07:12
I guess is both Tech and warriors Associated lives and

00:07:15
lives in Atherton. And so part of why this is

00:07:17
happening is on a policy lens. Gavin Newsom is and state of

00:07:22
California are pushing cities to start actually building housing.

00:07:26
And after this whole long yet Pro, Housing in be Crusade.

00:07:30
Finally it seems like the state is starting to turn the screws

00:07:34
to cities like San Francisco, Atherton to say, okay, you're

00:07:38
gonna have to build and if you don't you have to sort of prove

00:07:42
why your have to give us sort of good reason why you're not.

00:07:45
And so everybody starts writing letters in Atherton.

00:07:49
What are the letters that were also like why are rich people in

00:07:53
Atherton taking their time to write in to give their public

00:07:57
comment? What's funny is okay?

00:07:58
So the you know the large-scale picture is basically.

00:08:01
Yeah, there are there are multiple things happening at the

00:08:03
state level that are requiring cities across the state to have

00:08:07
to like proposed plans for how they're going to add a certain

00:08:10
amount of housing, like the exact details.

00:08:12
I think are kind of like depending on the region and the

00:08:15
place and that kind of thing that Atherton is basically on

00:08:17
the hook to build something like 350 ish new housing units in the

00:08:22
next X years. I think it's like 10 or

00:08:25
something like that it regardless of what the actual.

00:08:28
Puzzles are they were also. So part of the like Town Council

00:08:33
had proposed a change to the housing element, which is

00:08:37
basically like their housing plan for the city which allowed

00:08:40
overlay zones. So basically like exceptions to

00:08:43
the town wide understanding of one house per acre.

00:08:46
So these are places where all of a sudden, like you could have

00:08:49
multi-family housing, which like I could be wrong.

00:08:52
But as far as I know, does not exist in Atherton at all and

00:08:55
multi-family housing, like was ringing.

00:08:57
All sorts of alarm bells for these.

00:08:58
'Well, it's unclear that there were actually necessarily going

00:09:01
to be plans for these things to even be built.

00:09:03
But they were upset at the changes in zoning that were

00:09:06
being proposed. And look my understanding from

00:09:09
reading the ladders is like, you know, people were alleging that

00:09:12
the Town Council was not very clear that this was happening.

00:09:16
They were very upset, you know, it seems like there's a very

00:09:19
strong neighbor whisper Network in Atherton because they were

00:09:22
all talking about, like, oh, we were at this meeting.

00:09:25
We were at a zoom meeting where we all the neighbors discussed

00:09:27
this and like I heard about it from my And I'm very upset.

00:09:29
I love that the billionaires are also in like next door, like

00:09:34
misinformation threads. Just sort of like cobbling

00:09:36
together, what's happening? And sort of like totally can't

00:09:39
take it like a briefer. Who like, I don't know.

00:09:41
Goes to all the meetings and gives him like a really like in

00:09:43
form download of what's going on me.

00:09:46
My sense is that like some neighbors who were very

00:09:49
motivated about this raised the alarm because if you read

00:09:51
through the letters, you actually start to see a lot of

00:09:54
the same form responses and in so many people sending in, it's

00:09:58
like it's like Like you know we lightly change the phrasing of

00:10:00
exactly the same phrase real. Like we believe that changes to

00:10:03
the community like to the plan should be done only with like

00:10:06
strong input from the community or whatever.

00:10:08
And everyone has a slightly different for.

00:10:09
It's like those Facebook viral posts where it's just like on

00:10:13
March 13th. Facebook is going to publicly

00:10:15
release. Yes.

00:10:16
Your personal data. If you do not post this message

00:10:18
saying Mark, please do not tell everybody when I was born and in

00:10:22
what hospital and then you see, like three of your dumbest

00:10:24
friends on Facebook. Posting it.

00:10:26
This is like the billionaire Next Door version and then they

00:10:28
get Elected to congress. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:10:31
So that people, people were very upset about the proposals that

00:10:34
came up with all sorts of reasons for why this wouldn't

00:10:36
be, you know, a good idea, mean not living in a certain.

00:10:39
I don't know how legitimate they are, but it's like, oh, it's,

00:10:41
you know, to, there's too much traffic already on this tree.

00:10:43
Like, well, there's a guy who's like, a former Nest Labs, exact

00:10:48
Eric Charlton is his name, he says Atherton, as we know, it

00:10:50
will be gone and only you have the power to stop that from

00:10:53
happening. If you care about our city, be

00:10:55
walking down the sidewalk and ask somebody about their pool.

00:10:58
And they're like, actually, I don't have a pool and I have an

00:11:01
upstairs neighbor ruin the character of.

00:11:04
Yeah, there's a lot of like ruining the character and the

00:11:07
character is not knowing that you have neighbors.

00:11:09
I mean, that seems to be when you're dealing with one house

00:11:12
per acre, you know, up in Fairly hilly areas, there was a letter,

00:11:15
I believe from Anthony no, do, who is the CEO of?

00:11:18
So Phi, former Twitter exec who was complaining about the crime

00:11:22
rates that had just been skyrocketing?

00:11:24
He says the crime has become so bad.

00:11:26
Many families are employing private security.

00:11:28
Including our family to be clear.

00:11:30
We are writing this letter to communicate our objection to the

00:11:32
creation of multifamily overlay zones in Atherton, so which have

00:11:36
not even happened yet, right? So his wish Brian is

00:11:39
skyrocketing in town. If you were to add multi-family

00:11:42
housing, we're talking about a like, you know, warrior style

00:11:46
situation where we're living on the streets.

00:12:02
The funny thing about the Anthony Noto letter is it like

00:12:05
feels very stream of Consciousness and like they kind

00:12:07
of get riled up there. Like this is going to be bad for

00:12:09
this reason and and this and this and then also we have a lot

00:12:12
of crime, which like may or may not be true and then they kind

00:12:15
of like rain themselves in and okay so you bring you bring this

00:12:17
up. Do you mind if I cause I I'd

00:12:19
spend ten seconds on this before we started recording to see what

00:12:22
the crime stats were in Atherton, okay?

00:12:25
So at certain violent crime per 1 residents is 2.0, 2009 in

00:12:32
California. The rate is four point four.

00:12:35
So it's half the crime rate, overall in California and it is

00:12:38
below the national media so far. There have been.

00:12:43
Yeah, I see. I don't have the trend so it

00:12:44
could be slightly. Ticked up there.

00:12:46
Have been zero murders this year.

00:12:49
There have been three rapes there have been two robberies

00:12:52
and there have been 10 assaults. So what I don't know what the

00:12:56
veteran a certain would be a good mystery novel.

00:12:58
Yeah. Like immediately the scene is

00:13:00
set, right? And I don't know if it's like an

00:13:03
African cop that had to do something for the first time in

00:13:05
his life, having assaulted or you got to get like caught from

00:13:08
the big city to come down among these rich people.

00:13:10
And listen, we're not advocating for murder, but if you did

00:13:14
murder someone, we would have a good book on our hands.

00:13:17
Yeah, it would be a good story. The other good recurring tidbit

00:13:20
from these letters is rich, people suggesting that their

00:13:24
pool houses could be counted as additional housing units for the

00:13:28
steamer and this is multiple people.

00:13:31
This is like a guy named dick elkes who was like a former like

00:13:35
see of a bunch of companies and then Bruce Dunleavy.

00:13:37
And his wife say this, as well, they're like by the way, have we

00:13:40
considered have we considered counting pool house has?

00:13:43
I would say shows up in several suitors, sometimes we work our

00:13:47
staff to exhaustion and Sleep in the pool house overnight.

00:13:51
So I think it should count. Funny thing is like, do they

00:13:53
actually want to rent out their pool house to someone?

00:13:57
I don't think they want to so like I think this isn't going to

00:13:59
count and there are other I think there are other like, more

00:14:02
in the weeds reasons to like, push back against those.

00:14:05
Like it wouldn't necessarily, I think create a ton of affordable

00:14:08
housing because like even the townhouses in Atherton are going

00:14:10
to be super expensive. But I am no housing policy

00:14:13
experts have that can we? I don't know if you're willing

00:14:16
to take a position on the substance or not or what your

00:14:19
Neutral reporter Scruples are on this but I guess there are two

00:14:23
competing intuitions like on the one hand.

00:14:26
You know, what's the point of being rich?

00:14:28
You want, you want to be rich to live in like a nice neighborhood

00:14:31
and like you shopped for the nice neighborhood and like, like

00:14:34
should there never be like I don't like I guess that's

00:14:38
certainly not what I have. I mean the the sort of hypocrisy

00:14:41
of course is just that like these are all like extreme

00:14:45
capitalist. And here they are trying to use

00:14:46
like government protectionism to like, Stop the market from, you

00:14:51
know, like building where it's desirable I think the hypocrisy

00:14:56
is like strongest with Andreessen right.

00:14:59
Someone who has staked his entire like public brand on

00:15:03
being like America doesn't build enough anymore.

00:15:06
And I'm going to write a big essay about how people should

00:15:08
build and it's gonna be a little vague.

00:15:09
Don't worry about it, but I am going to specific.

00:15:11
Talk to me. How we don't how we don't build

00:15:13
enough housing and like this is a problem and like housing is

00:15:15
such a, you know, how is it that like we, you know?

00:15:19
No, can no longer. Like, figure out how to, like,

00:15:22
get the economic realities lined up so that we can like build

00:15:25
enough. Housing was like, Well, turns

00:15:26
out people like you are a part of the problem.

00:15:29
I'm not saying he's the only problem obviously, but like that

00:15:33
sort of Rouse me up a bit. But I would say, you know, I

00:15:37
think with the other people it's like a little bit harder, you

00:15:39
know, it's a little bit more of a stretch.

00:15:40
It's like, okay. Well in general I think tech

00:15:42
companies do try to Champion like you know.

00:15:45
Okay. The the idea that there's Thing

00:15:49
is way too expensive in California means that we should

00:15:51
build more of. This is like, how the markets

00:15:52
work and I think that like, in Aaron Griffis piece in the times

00:15:56
points out that, like, these companies at large have

00:15:59
supported housing forward policy.

00:16:01
And this is Aaron. Griffith is the guest has

00:16:03
appeared on this show, I think, the most times, right?

00:16:06
So she's basically writing on behalf of dead cat, you know,

00:16:09
amazing, I mean, don't I mean, I'm secondary employment to her

00:16:12
her dead cat appearance. I'm a huge Aaron fan.

00:16:15
What can I say? And, yeah, she came out with a

00:16:18
great piece and I think, She pointed out like yeah the

00:16:20
companies that these these execs work for like have also taken

00:16:23
stances in favor of building more housing will like turns

00:16:26
out. Yeah.

00:16:26
When you build more housing people who live right next to it

00:16:29
do get kind of annoyed but like that's that's just like the

00:16:32
trade-off you had on the whole NIMBY thing like the right?

00:16:34
Yeah. That's why it's not in my

00:16:36
backyard. Everybody is for building in

00:16:39
some abstract. It's like sure.

00:16:40
Yeah. I get these peoples around

00:16:42
somewhere. It's like the whole point of the

00:16:44
Indie movement is you have to be willing to say, yes, right here,

00:16:47
where we are, where we have? Coal Power, we're willing to

00:16:50
make it happen. So there's nothing novel about

00:16:53
being like, Oh yeah, I like building generally.

00:16:55
I just don't like it when an inconvenience is me like duh,

00:16:57
everybody would subscribe to that.

00:16:59
Like, when so many people, I feel now know the concept of

00:17:04
being an MD and understand the like sort of the negative

00:17:08
effects overall, to like our society that comes with

00:17:11
nimbyism, it's a little sad that like, even in that position,

00:17:15
these people are still exerting like classic nimbyism, right

00:17:18
there. Just like oh, Oh my God, it

00:17:19
could not like it is in fact unfathomable that this would

00:17:22
happen in Atherton. Dear God, like please let it

00:17:26
happen somewhere else, right? And we sort of already made this

00:17:29
point, I think it's worth emphasizing a multi-family

00:17:31
housing unit or few in Atherton, his who can do ship to fix the

00:17:36
housing crisis across California.

00:17:38
These are you know this is housing that will probably be a

00:17:40
million dollars for the low-end lowest lowest end unit.

00:17:44
So really what this is just is a hilarious display of nimbyism

00:17:48
and You know, at the most outsized and comical level what

00:17:52
is going on in areas, where it actually would be meaningful.

00:17:56
But is being prevented by people who do not want to have any sort

00:17:59
of housing affect their way of life, because people in

00:18:01
California, and in the Bay Area, specifically, cling so hard to

00:18:05
their land and like, their perceived status and privacy or

00:18:09
whatever that they're refusing to allow developers to do

00:18:12
anything. And at, you know, look, I think

00:18:14
there's some complications and I don't know, we can talk about

00:18:17
this at a different episode here, but like, Like the Indie

00:18:19
movement is also very tied up in with, you know what developers

00:18:22
want to do doesn't always allow for, you know, public housing in

00:18:26
the kind of low cost that would actually affect the rates of

00:18:30
people that don't have a lot of money to find places to live,

00:18:33
but we can find that one, Tom's, Tom thinks he's the leftist on

00:18:36
this podcast with and I'm like, I listen, I'm back.

00:18:38
I'm like, you don't, you don't sound that leftist on this

00:18:41
podcast. But now he's now.

00:18:43
But I'm saying that client, that comment was one of the first

00:18:45
rose. I go.

00:18:45
Now he's trying to get some, some real left is Imani.

00:18:49
Yeah, I'm on the anti um be mean train my God, that we could have

00:18:53
a little fight about that. Anyway I'm gonna not and not get

00:18:56
drawn into that. I mean let we've talked around

00:18:59
Marc Andreessen. I mean Marc Andreessen is wife

00:19:02
like her family is like a major California real estate

00:19:05
developer, right? Like he's like yeah and this

00:19:08
isn't just some like they should know better, right?

00:19:10
They know this whole thing, I can give a tiny bit of

00:19:14
background which is I was a student at Stanford and so Laura

00:19:19
Laura was Mark intrusions wife Laura Arriaga Andreessen and

00:19:22
anyone who recognizes the name, Arriaga knows that like, yeah,

00:19:25
John Arriaga was just like, you know, now this is embarrassing.

00:19:29
I don't actually know what he did to gain his fortune, but he

00:19:32
definitely is. His name is on like half of the

00:19:36
buildings at Stanford or has like it's like the Arriaga

00:19:40
dining. Commons, do you like Arriaga gym

00:19:43
like that? There's like three others and

00:19:45
then there's a bunch more that he also paid for, but like,

00:19:47
didn't want his name on, for some And this was like spending

00:19:51
a lot of time. Yeah, I remember trying to dig

00:19:55
into this, when I was like a student reporter at Stanford,

00:19:57
obviously didn't end up getting that far.

00:19:59
But yeah, he's a, you know, the the hospital like if you go to

00:20:02
the emergency room which like one time, my roommate fell while

00:20:06
like and I had to drive her to the ER and we're sitting there

00:20:08
and it's like Laura Arriaga Andreessen emergency rooms and

00:20:11
you just see the name. See, that's real reporting.

00:20:13
It's like I learned this in the emergency room.

00:20:17
Yeah. All you got out your little

00:20:18
know. Notebook.

00:20:19
You started. You haven't seen ya Mars

00:20:21
someday, anyway. Then you think your friends are

00:20:24
getting and you're like, that's, that's good.

00:20:26
Did you get too close to the truth at some point?

00:20:28
Did you like get called into like the Arriaga conference room

00:20:31
fold? Like you got the bed baby speech

00:20:33
from Network? Without like I remember like

00:20:35
there was like we thought that he was funding the like

00:20:39
Renovations of some of the like row houses that are like things

00:20:43
like dorms and be like, I don't know if we ever actually staked

00:20:47
it out, but I think we like wanted to stake it out.

00:20:49
To like, talk to the construction crew because we

00:20:52
were convinced there was some sort of like, Kickback scheme.

00:20:54
I don't know. It didn't it didn't get off the

00:20:55
ground but basically he's, you know, he's a huge name.

00:20:57
Tons of money and very much like especially in the in the sort of

00:21:02
Greater Bay Area announced tons of land tons of land.

00:21:05
Yes. And I think, I don't know what

00:21:06
you're getting at, but I guess it's just like the, the

00:21:08
privileged of the privileged. Yeah.

00:21:10
And they should know. Like, I feel like, one of the

00:21:12
biggest issues with California is the tax policy that if you

00:21:16
early landowner, you get taxed in that tax rate.

00:21:19
Like this is a family that deeply understands housing and

00:21:23
real estate in California and is in a blur of the status quote.

00:21:27
So it is, yeah. It is just like, it's not like,

00:21:31
oh yeah, they're like some generically rich person who's,

00:21:34
like, trying to protect their house.

00:21:36
It's also like they have perhaps like the greatest one, some of

00:21:40
the greatest reach in California, real estate and

00:21:42
power of anybody. You know what I mean?

00:21:45
Like, yeah. So, so then they The and

00:21:49
riesen's together and we don't really know if it's a more Mark,

00:21:52
or Laura thing. Right?

00:21:53
I feel like that's sort of gotten everybody's talking about

00:21:55
him but they wrote it together, right?

00:21:57
Yeah, they wrote it together. I mean, many of the letters.

00:22:00
I will say those having read those letters.

00:22:01
Many of the letters are written and signed by both in general I

00:22:06
would say all the couples ended up being a man and a woman but

00:22:08
like yeah. Both the husband and the wife of

00:22:10
this of this couple look, you could read you could try to do a

00:22:13
little bit of interpretation by looking at whose name was

00:22:17
written first. But certainly I wouldn't like

00:22:20
assume, you know, based on the order of the names and the

00:22:23
signature who actually like shirt the letter.

00:22:25
If it was one or two and they had great all caps, right?

00:22:28
The other was in all caps, we are immensely.

00:22:30
Opposed to this thing. I'm, there is also someone who

00:22:33
was dying. I got it.

00:22:35
I've read enough tweets a Twitter poster.

00:22:38
Yeah, I feel confident in saying he was like, no, no, no, honey.

00:22:42
I like that one all caps. Yeah, yeah.

00:22:45
And there's a yeah, there's someone else who had like a

00:22:47
really funny Some of some of the letters are clearly like, you

00:22:52
know, Miss punctuated. A lot of all caps, like, Angry

00:22:55
Angry residents, like deciding to really make their emotions

00:22:59
known. I mean, the best part of parks

00:23:01
and rec was always when they did sort of the Town, sort of Talons

00:23:05
people coming in and giving their feedback and it was always

00:23:07
insane. I feel like, oh my God.

00:23:09
So this could just be a show where it's just, you know, the

00:23:12
wealthy people trying to engage with like, you know, just the

00:23:15
people like they're done with their job.

00:23:17
They retired and they just need like Like meaning.

00:23:19
So they're fighting with like they're super anyway or it's a

00:23:22
co-op board or so you know all those things that's endlessly.

00:23:25
Anyway. Okay.

00:23:26
So can we talk about flow now? I did you have having missed

00:23:30
anything on this piece of it? No I'm good.

00:23:32
I guess what? Before we before we go up the

00:23:34
flow I guess the last thing I want to say on this topic that I

00:23:36
find so fitting and hilarious is that Tech is also trying to

00:23:41
figure out solutions to the housing crisis through their

00:23:44
companies. Right there are a lot of venture

00:23:47
back real estate companies actually this does Leaving the

00:23:49
flow who think that, like, you know, where is they do

00:23:53
recognize. There's a problem, there are

00:23:54
some who are nominally in bees there ones who will give a lot

00:23:57
to give me movements and causes. And they also think that their

00:24:00
technology can somehow solve this, right that there's some

00:24:03
way in which you can apply. Whether it's, I don't know,

00:24:05
algorithms or some version of Co-op living to fix the housing

00:24:08
problem. And yet, when it comes to their

00:24:11
particular area, it doesn't seem that they're willing to if

00:24:13
they're not going to dog food it right?

00:24:15
They're not going to be using their own products in order to

00:24:17
fix this larger issue. My perfect word for this.

00:24:20
Yeah, that's exactly the whole Tech.

00:24:22
Philosophy is dog, food your product do the thing that you're

00:24:27
suffer through your terrible tech product, you're trying to

00:24:29
force on the world and they won't even dog food the world

00:24:33
that they want, which is a dense urban life that is.

00:24:37
That's a great distillation of the.

00:24:39
Yeah, I think exactly. And I think like, if what

00:24:42
they're promising is actually going to be great if they are

00:24:45
creating a new future that is very livable and is something

00:24:49
They are promising as, you know give us your money, you know,

00:24:52
investors and you as users. Take part in it, you should be

00:24:56
all about that sort of thing. And it seems like either the

00:24:59
tech companies that they're building, aren't that useful and

00:25:02
aren't actually going to do any of this or they just never

00:25:04
believed it in the first place. I have my thoughts on which that

00:25:08
is specifically but anyway so that leads into flow and our

00:25:11
good friend, Adam Newman, who is cycling.

00:25:13
If you're going to support we work you need to stay in an open

00:25:16
Office every hour of the day instead of your Or you know yeah

00:25:20
it's like hardwood table. You need a drink fucking water

00:25:23
out of the cold makeup. That's always half full time.

00:25:28
It's always because it says so on the cup.

00:25:31
Yeah. Does it even I actually can?

00:25:33
I don't read these things. It does it does.

00:25:35
Oh, that's okay. What are you guys referencing?

00:25:37
Which is a metal, as you go to a, we work the cups that you can

00:25:41
like get to like get your sparkling water from the top or

00:25:43
your whenever they're metal and they say always have full.

00:25:47
At least they did a couple years ago.

00:25:49
I don't know if possible if they've changed but they I think

00:25:51
actually, you know, after all the turmoil, we work, they had

00:25:53
to legally remove them, it wasn't accurate advertising.

00:25:57
I haven't noticed that coffee mugs, used to say, do what you

00:25:59
love? I didn't like I gotta say, I

00:26:01
kind of miss the era of like we worked aggressive branding.

00:26:06
You can't see Ellen's apartment right now but she has life is

00:26:09
good merchandise, all over the place.

00:26:11
She just she has just like hang in there cat posters on her wall

00:26:15
everywhere. It's just Soul, just like Bland

00:26:18
affirmation. It's just paint covering every

00:26:21
inch of things. I'm beyond live laugh.

00:26:23
Love. I like the plastic.

00:26:25
I know I'm actually with you because I do work, occasionally

00:26:28
out of a, we work inside her, you know, Lisa's one in downtown

00:26:32
SF. And I also used to go to a, we

00:26:34
work occasionally when I was at the information they have one in

00:26:38
New York. And yeah.

00:26:40
The, the before, and after are, they are of Plenty and they are

00:26:43
of now is Stark and I mean, let's take away, you know, the

00:26:47
beer on tap and the kombucha. And the flavored water.

00:26:51
There's just less kind of camaraderie.

00:26:52
The kind of bullshit that I do moon was really grafting on when

00:26:56
he was making, these companies is long gone, but they did keep

00:26:58
the metal cups, which if you eat a frigid, I like, I feel like my

00:27:04
hand will like, to use to them at times.

00:27:06
But but anyway, so that is the Adam Newman fantasy.

00:27:09
He is working his hardest to solve our office issues and now

00:27:12
our domestic housing issues. So, why don't you explain to

00:27:15
poor? We get into 3 since and And what

00:27:19
Eric believes is the back story as to why injuries and Horowitz

00:27:23
is making the largest investment ever in to Adam, Newman's come

00:27:26
back. Can you tell us about flow?

00:27:28
What is flow? Yeah, so there's some fun stuff

00:27:31
going on here, which is to backup, even farther.

00:27:34
Adam Newman. Apparently, his new.

00:27:36
Favorite word is Flo, I'm not kidding.

00:27:37
This is like in an FDA article from like, six months ago.

00:27:41
And that has led to two different Ventures.

00:27:43
One of them is called flow carbon which as far as I

00:27:46
understand, he is a co-founder of, but has no real.

00:27:49
Operational like day today in and probably put money into, but

00:27:51
I think maybe he like had the idea and then got other people

00:27:54
to start building it flow carbon is a something related to like

00:27:59
using the blockchain to track carbon credits.

00:28:01
So imagine it has to do with sort of like renewable energy

00:28:04
accounting and crypto and then he decided to have this other

00:28:08
cop. So and then four months, there

00:28:10
had been stories about like, oh, Adam Newman is doing like a

00:28:12
residential real estate play. So like we kind of knew that

00:28:14
this was coming. He there were, you know, people

00:28:17
who cover like commercial real estate.

00:28:18
Had tracked places where he had entities that had bought like

00:28:24
residential towers and a lot of them like in Florida, Atlanta

00:28:28
and like other parts of kind of the US.

00:28:32
And so we knew that he was like interested in residential real

00:28:34
plant like real estate what we found out with this announcement

00:28:38
is that this other companies also called flow which is just

00:28:41
hilarious to me. So we have low carbon and we

00:28:43
have flow there. Two different ones.

00:28:45
This is I guess, flow trademark, you know, there are okay.

00:28:48
And the funny thing is With the flow carbon.

00:28:50
They have a token called, like, I'm going to get it wrong.

00:28:53
It's like goddess Earth or something like that.

00:28:57
Like there's, they have a very funny name for the token by

00:29:00
Rebecca. Nice to see your contribution

00:29:02
again. My hat tip to Rebecca for a

00:29:04
reasserting, her brand genius. Well, sure her brand.

00:29:08
These days is student of life for life, and if you've heard

00:29:11
about Soulful, that's how you say, the acronym, Sol SL student

00:29:16
of Life, For Life soulful. They still together.

00:29:20
Of course, they're together. Do you not believe in love?

00:29:22
I say I mean I think so they actually had another that

00:29:24
another kid recently. Not, I have sex.

00:29:27
I'm not 100% sure about that. I'm pretty sure they have six

00:29:30
kids. All right, anonymous tips.

00:29:31
Are raising questions about this relationship to me?

00:29:34
But whatever. Yeah, we're definitely keeping

00:29:36
that in. Yeah.

00:29:38
Oh well, we had the background you know we work obviously Adam.

00:29:42
Yeah. So the name to the company which

00:29:44
is one of his many scandals. So that's that's yeah.

00:29:46
That's what we had trademark out without gluing.

00:29:49
Into for the last five minutes tired.

00:29:50
So now you're in on the joke. Okay.

00:29:52
Yeah, that's who knows? Who knows about the trademark

00:29:54
for flaw look into it. The yacht.

00:29:57
So it's a little unclear now and then so yeah.

00:29:59
Flow as the residential real estate play.

00:30:03
Now we know has raised money from injuries and a lot of

00:30:05
money. People are still sort of up

00:30:07
there about what exactly it does and the terms of it are.

00:30:09
So it's 250 million but like Adams bringing some out any

00:30:12
items bringing some real estate, we don't want the protections.

00:30:15
They don't expressly say it's not dead like so there.

00:30:19
And I want to point out, so we all went crazy on this.

00:30:22
The New York Times story said, biggest single, check, ever from

00:30:25
Andreas and 350 million and reason, definitely wanted to

00:30:29
blast us out to the world. I mean, this was in the New York

00:30:31
Times, they wrote a bar up blog post Marc Andreessen on the

00:30:34
board. They could have done tons of

00:30:36
stuff to caveat it. They could have been like, sure

00:30:38
it's a billion but you know, think about our ownership, you

00:30:41
know, they're they almost like oversold, how ridiculous of a

00:30:44
deal. This was in ways where you start

00:30:46
to ask questions, you're like, well, what did they At four.

00:30:50
Anyway, I just I just want to flag that but it's still

00:30:53
optically and withdrew and fifty million in some form.

00:30:56
They went all-in again on Adam Newman.

00:30:58
A person that many people, you know, would never invest in

00:31:02
again, in their life and some yeah.

00:31:04
Well, and what's funny is Adam, doing residential real estate is

00:31:09
not new. So, we work for those who

00:31:10
haven't been, like, totally in the weeds in it, they had a

00:31:13
venture called we lived for several years, which had two

00:31:15
locations, one of them in New York, on Wall Street and the

00:31:19
other one in DC and they were basically, like, communal living

00:31:25
sort of adult dorms would, maybe be like an uncharitable way to

00:31:28
describe them. I stayed in one for a story and

00:31:30
I'm kind of the like communal living X4.

00:31:32
Like I lived in a cop for five years in San Francisco.

00:31:34
It's like uh, it's a, it's a, it's an intentional community

00:31:38
area. Thank you very much where we

00:31:41
share resources such as our grocery shopping and share

00:31:45
communal space. My people still call them Cuba

00:31:47
seen. By the way, Yeah, well, Ellen is

00:31:50
writing a book on an alleged cult.

00:31:51
By the way, about one tastes. So we're teasing.

00:31:54
All the Bloomberg books. Mark, Bergen is going to come on

00:31:57
soon. So, I anyway.

00:31:59
Nice. Well marks.

00:32:00
Marks book is actually coming out soon - now maybe not going

00:32:03
to come out until 2024, but in two years, keep an eye out for

00:32:07
you to build anticipation, you know, keep an eye out for my

00:32:09
book about the alleged sex. Yeah, by the way, I was going to

00:32:12
say between yours and Mark will see, which one is sexier Marxist

00:32:16
longer righteous very long. I'm trying to make Nice work

00:32:19
that's actually in the book like I'm running some pieces about it

00:32:25
for Insider because I'm now covering YouTube so I hope it's

00:32:27
not too long before you're like it's really weird.

00:32:30
You have it ready yet? No.

00:32:31
We I don't have it. You have it.

00:32:32
No, I don't. It was supposed to be in the

00:32:33
mail. I had to get one from like the

00:32:35
Pirate Bay. Have a digital copy.

00:32:37
Do you really will? Keep that in?

00:32:40
But like kind of sort of? Anyway, the funny thing is that

00:32:43
like we live was a flop, staying there, it was like the people

00:32:46
who stay there, like didn't give a shit about like, Community.

00:32:49
They just wanted like a cheap apartment that came furnished

00:32:51
and it was like they were happy hours but it was just kind of

00:32:54
like, I don't know, you know, I think there are some people

00:32:56
really liked it but it didn't take off it, you know, at some

00:32:58
point we work had projected happy.

00:33:00
I was like there were snacks in the lunchroom kind of thing,

00:33:02
right? Like it was no, they did have

00:33:04
like it's like they had a bar on like the 13th floor of the

00:33:07
building and like it, you know, you could send out a message on

00:33:10
the app being like we got chicken wings and like

00:33:12
margaritas, like come by, and people would come by and like

00:33:15
chitchat. And I was nice and there was a

00:33:16
hot tub on the roof and they would Have parties at the hot

00:33:19
tub on the roof and it was very like kind of like, you know,

00:33:22
Millennial dream dream scene of like, oh, life in the city.

00:33:27
Regardless of what the subjective experience of living

00:33:30
at we live. Was it was objectively, much

00:33:33
smaller than Adam had ever predicted like they used to give

00:33:36
these presentations about how big we live was going to be an

00:33:39
it like never progressed past these two locations, and they

00:33:42
ended up getting rid of them, selling them off to like other

00:33:45
coding. This is a company that spent,

00:33:47
what 10? Plus just like through endless

00:33:51
amounts of money and they look like they had is much money in

00:33:53
the world to make this thing work.

00:33:54
I mean, yeah. I mean I think at some point it

00:33:57
stopped being a priority for them so but you know of course

00:33:59
it ties very well into atoms like lifelong, you know,

00:34:05
explorations of community by liking, you can draw this thing

00:34:08
where it's like, okay lived at the kibbutz when he was a teen

00:34:10
and like he was very interested in like building community at

00:34:13
the office and now baby. That's what he'll do is low,

00:34:16
like maybe holders and he is good at it.

00:34:18
It's funny with Tom was saying earlier where it was shitting

00:34:21
on. We work having lost a sense of

00:34:22
community. It's like funny, how could

00:34:24
losing Adam Newman, I get that money makes Community possible.

00:34:28
You have free food and people come around it, but it is sort

00:34:31
of funny that like it did feel like atoms like Essence was able

00:34:35
to sort of trickle down in some ways, to the actual we work

00:34:39
experience. Yeah.

00:34:41
Look if I may for a minute it's like having spent a lot of time

00:34:44
talking to people who worked really closely with Adam.

00:34:46
I've spent time with Adam, like we made this whole podcast about

00:34:48
Kind of analyzing like his effects on this company.

00:34:51
It's like he is like really just an exciting person to be around

00:34:57
and I think people underestimate how important that is like

00:34:59
people would meet him and they would just like have fun and

00:35:02
like feel inspired and feel this Vision.

00:35:04
He has he's like crazy ideas and he's so convinced that they're

00:35:07
going to happen and people have told me that that's like his

00:35:10
greatest gift is kids. This crazy idea.

00:35:12
People are kind of like what and then he just convinces you like

00:35:15
oh it's going to work and then it does and then you feel

00:35:17
amazing. You feel like you were part.

00:35:18
Part of this, like kind of ability to move Beyond like the

00:35:23
limitations that you thought existed in your life and he's I

00:35:27
don't know, he's just like I think I think I certainly would

00:35:31
not underestimate the sort of qualitative excitement that he

00:35:36
bring, he would be a good alleged cult leader, you know,

00:35:40
he would be an amazing lesson. He Fashions himself in that way.

00:35:44
That's what the flowy shirts and bare feet are all about.

00:35:47
I'm not joking, right? It's all part of the central

00:35:49
appeal, that him. And I mean, the criticism with

00:35:52
we work and L, and I know you probably have a lot of thoughts

00:35:55
here, is that there wasn't anything all that Innovative

00:35:57
about the communal work office idea?

00:36:00
There were other co-working spaces publicly traded

00:36:03
companies, that offered short term, limited rental space in

00:36:07
large, apartment buildings and, you know, we work as a, maybe

00:36:11
more branded version of it. And there may have been some

00:36:13
kind of clever real estate tricks about, like, upgrading or

00:36:16
upzoning a building, you know? Because it had the, we were

00:36:19
brand name on, it was therefore more valuable, there are some

00:36:22
smart stuff there, they had raised so much money, they had

00:36:24
to spend this money and suddenly, it became not just

00:36:28
like, you know, a nice branding on an existing idea of

00:36:31
co-working spaces. But this all-encompassing

00:36:34
communal idea that, you know, people were trying to argue was

00:36:38
a, what was it 50 billion dollar company or some 4747 top?

00:36:43
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

00:36:44
I mean and I think like look probably in the like just some

00:36:48
of the things that Is that they made a rodent trust and like

00:36:50
were you know? But and in the company grew to

00:36:52
this like enormous is and because they were able to make

00:36:55
this very effective height machine and then there were some

00:36:59
mistakes that they made along the way that I think like kind

00:37:00
of undercut, a lot of that in the new tumbled that because

00:37:03
they're able to convince Massa, like, I really like.

00:37:05
Yeah. Looks like right Adams still

00:37:07
good at that and I think he's done it again, right?

00:37:10
Convince a I mean Andreessen is very similar to soft baked.

00:37:14
I mean, they're both like have more money than their like

00:37:16
competitors. Need to deploy a A lot of it

00:37:19
consider themselves, like, idea, driven sort of geniuses.

00:37:23
And so, yeah, Flo I know, we sort of said, you know, we don't

00:37:27
know a lot about it. We've obviously said it has to

00:37:29
do with residential but I don't know what's what do we know

00:37:34
about it or it has to do with apartments, right?

00:37:36
Yeah, I mean, it seems like they've bought apartment space

00:37:39
as well as some retail space. And I, you know, there's there

00:37:44
was a story that says that they also are going to offer like

00:37:46
basically a crypto wall So my guess is that there's a crypto

00:37:51
elements, I don't know exactly what and then there are also in

00:37:55
the injuries and posted kind of hint at like, oh, you know, like

00:38:00
this way renters can like get ownership of some kind or maybe

00:38:04
it wasn't quite that broad, right?

00:38:05
That's what I don't understand it, addresses ownership, but

00:38:08
it's renter thing that we that's the big leap.

00:38:11
We don't has a closer look. I think.

00:38:14
Well, first of all, there's some funny things in that blog post

00:38:16
in which Marc Andreessen basically like, It's on renters

00:38:19
and he's like renters don't care about anything.

00:38:20
Renters never have Community with the place they live.

00:38:22
Which is like, I think a very that's like exactly what

00:38:25
homeowners think. I don't know.

00:38:26
I found that a little princess but and I'm like, when I would

00:38:29
love to know, Marc Andreessen is ability to do these huge things.

00:38:32
We're all talking about him, and he doesn't answer like

00:38:35
fundamental questions. Anybody would have if you

00:38:37
announced it like, Mark, please answer these questions, when is

00:38:40
the last time you ever lived in apartment ever?

00:38:43
You know what I mean? Like, what I just feel like

00:38:46
that's relevant. Obviously, the other thing that

00:38:48
That I'm really thinking about is, please reconcile your

00:38:52
nimbyism and Atherton with your it's time to build.

00:38:55
Like, how do you put out? He literally, I think the first

00:38:57
line of it was like, it's time to build, like, he puts out this

00:39:00
post. It's clearly in line with

00:39:02
building any. He he's so Shameless that he

00:39:06
feels no need to answer. Like, all the public stuff about

00:39:10
Atherton, like he can just pretend they say nothing about

00:39:13
it. It's galling to me like it in

00:39:16
some ways. The media just is like call.

00:39:18
Palpable here in that. We're so willing to just move on

00:39:21
to the next headline and it just like, okay, he doesn't even, he

00:39:25
does want to talk about it. We're still willing to get super

00:39:27
excited about his new thing because it's such a good story

00:39:29
line. And I do find, I mean, the media

00:39:31
is powerless these days. We have were just we take the

00:39:34
stories as they come. There's no control and he never

00:39:38
has to face any questions that he doesn't want to.

00:39:40
And by the way, we will link to eretz article about this topic

00:39:43
in the show, description of this episode.

00:39:45
So we can see that the media is complicit all around here.

00:39:49
I'm complicit or what do you say?

00:39:51
Yeah, you wrote the article. Oh, but yours was about Wyatt.

00:39:54
Yeah. But I and I talked about the

00:39:56
Atherton and like I'm talking I'm critical like to some degree

00:40:01
and it with maybe he's going to be calling Elizabeth Holmes.

00:40:03
Next. I mean it was partially just

00:40:05
yeah. We're all riding the narrative

00:40:06
wave sure if yeah. It would do.

00:40:08
I follow the news like everyone? Yes.

00:40:10
Yeah I think real estate is a fascinating topic for Venture

00:40:14
Capital because the idea that there can really be innovation.

00:40:18
In real estate, which is the core.

00:40:21
I mean, that is the foundational element of tech and a venture

00:40:24
capital is that these things maybe exist, some of it doesn't,

00:40:27
but if we just put the right minds and enough Venture Capital

00:40:30
dollars towards it can transform it and there is nothing to be

00:40:34
transformed with real estate. You can it's just branding at

00:40:37
the end of the day, right? We can just take an area, put a

00:40:40
different name on it, slap a new coat of paint and suddenly,

00:40:42
we've decided it has more value. And yet you see Venture Capital

00:40:46
over and over again, trying to Do something in a space because

00:40:50
it's there. If so in, you know, the tan is

00:40:52
enormous. And so we don't really know a

00:40:54
ton about this one here. This idea of like what rent rent

00:40:58
to own or like ownership in Vault renting, that just kind of

00:41:01
sounds like a mortgage at a certain level?

00:41:03
Maybe with as much as I think not as much credit checking.

00:41:06
I mean it's always funny to I were you just going to rent and

00:41:09
you own a coin or something you know you got my work here.

00:41:13
Just like you can speculate alongside your rental and like

00:41:16
lose all your wealth through the coin.

00:41:18
Into or what. Anyway, right, you have no

00:41:20
ownership but there's some sort of like liquid Market that's

00:41:23
it's like on top of it which you can maybe trade up some value

00:41:26
but also lose a huge amount in the process.

00:41:28
Brilliant brilliant. But yeah I think it's it's it's

00:41:32
so funny to watch because every time they go into real estate it

00:41:36
does reveal what I think, one of the weaknesses of tech and

00:41:39
venture capitalist which is they end up just back in themselves

00:41:41
into already existing products. And and so like that was kind of

00:41:45
the case of we work they sort of just did co-working spaces and

00:41:48
then this Of thing. I guess we don't really know

00:41:50
enough yet to cast judgment, but it sounds to me, it's just going

00:41:52
to end up being some version of like communal communal living

00:41:56
with like a rental ownership and then maybe like a dowel wrapper

00:41:59
on it or some sort of like crypto.

00:42:01
Yeah. My best guess.

00:42:02
Is it's going to be like, in the same sense that, like, we people

00:42:05
think that we work was co-working, but it's actually

00:42:08
more like offices alongside each other with shirt amenities.

00:42:11
You're not usually like unless you're kind of like the

00:42:13
freelancer and, and steadily over the years, the percentage

00:42:17
of we Works customer Base. That was like small business

00:42:20
Freelancers. Entrepreneur type single units

00:42:23
looking for like, community in their office has gotten, has

00:42:26
gotten smaller, and it has become more and more like large

00:42:30
companies, you know, insiders are classic example, right?

00:42:33
Like you know, established company is being like, well, we

00:42:35
need an office in San Francisco, like I guess we'll get some we

00:42:38
work space and so then like presumably you have like your

00:42:42
own little office corner where it's like you and your

00:42:45
colleagues and you just happen to like share an elevator with

00:42:48
other Like maybe when you get the coffee, you like walk next

00:42:51
to Someone Like You don't really know and I think if I were to

00:42:55
guess, this is complete speculation but that like, you

00:42:58
know, maybe the apartment buildings are going to be a

00:43:00
little bit more like that because, like, existing real

00:43:02
estate as it is, is not that amenable to like, actual shared

00:43:07
communal living. It is still like individual

00:43:09
units, for everyone has their own kitchen.

00:43:11
Everyone has their own stuff and then maybe you share a like,

00:43:13
share it amenities like the gym, or the lobby, or things like

00:43:16
that. Yeah, I always hate those

00:43:18
shares. Amenity buildings.

00:43:19
I mean, I live in old style buildings but yeah, you could

00:43:22
see why two people who that's appealing.

00:43:25
You could say, well what if we cut out the kitchen, you shared

00:43:27
a kitchen, you saved even more. Anyway now we're just speculate

00:43:30
but I mean there there is you know sometimes these things need

00:43:35
to get shaken up and if you can put like a good brand sheen on

00:43:37
it, it's an opportunity I mean isn't Mark Laurie.

00:43:40
Trying to reinvent the city or do you give up on that already

00:43:43
and now he's isn't he doing delivering?

00:43:45
He's doing food trucks. I believe that's his mother

00:43:47
wasn't he? The one In a building new city,

00:43:49
Reinventing the city comes up a lot.

00:43:51
I mean, Google had sidewalk Labs that there's there's always

00:43:53
attempts to try to do that and isn't there that Saudi Arabian

00:43:56
like numeracy on neom go? Well the Saudi Arabia thing is

00:44:01
interesting because that really ties into your post I believe

00:44:05
about what exactly is Mark injuries and trying to do here

00:44:09
and why did he make the investment that he did or why

00:44:12
did the firm egg divestment? Yeah, it's all about your troll

00:44:14
Theory. Eric, I want to hear more about

00:44:15
that. First of all, I think he did it

00:44:18
and this This is not the answer. You guys want to hear because he

00:44:21
believes in American, dynamism he has a ton of money.

00:44:23
He wants to use capitalism to try and reform this market.

00:44:27
Like I what I'm saying with the trolling piece is that I think

00:44:31
Marc Andreessen Andreessen, Horowitz are perfectly happy to

00:44:34
drive everyone, crazy and doing this.

00:44:36
And that's what I was trying to emphasize in how they gave it to

00:44:38
New York Times. They emphasized.

00:44:40
How much money was? They did a big check when they

00:44:42
could have done a small one. They are totally happy to drive

00:44:46
most people crazy and think what these For crits.

00:44:49
I mean, the fact that it was coming right after the Atherton

00:44:51
thing. They know, you know, the fact

00:44:54
that it's going to drive, liberals crazy.

00:44:55
They know that they like that, that's their branding.

00:44:57
The Branding is appeal to Founders, you're telling the

00:45:01
Press go, fuck yourselves, all your we work reporting.

00:45:03
Sorry, Ellen. The guy's fine.

00:45:05
He goes on again, doesn't matter and then it tells Founders that

00:45:10
they're willing. If you're an exciting ambitious,

00:45:12
founder there, they're here for you and so, yeah, I mean, I

00:45:16
don't think they're, I don't think it's just like I don't

00:45:18
know. But Marc Andreessen does love to

00:45:20
troll. I mean, I don't think it's

00:45:21
purely trolling. They've a strong articulated

00:45:23
thesis around American dynamism and sort of trying to Branch out

00:45:26
attack. They have too much money, but I

00:45:28
do think there's an Impulse there, which is fuck the left.

00:45:32
Like, fuck. All these people who say oh and

00:45:35
I, you know, I was just on a podcast today.

00:45:37
I mean there is like you listen to liberals sometimes talk about

00:45:39
this stuff you know and I am a liberal but like they're like oh

00:45:42
policy we need government to solve these things and it's like

00:45:45
well government's not really maybe it slowly.

00:45:48
Open now in California. But like what harm is there in?

00:45:52
If he was going to invest, 250 million dollars in some software

00:45:56
company, nobody's going to eject to that for the public.

00:45:59
It's probably better that he's using the 350 million dollars.

00:46:02
Maybe for his LPS, which are another constituent of mine.

00:46:05
Maybe it's not good for them, but like, you know, I think the

00:46:09
average person should be like, great, they're throwing some

00:46:11
money is something that could help me, but I feel the, the

00:46:14
reaction is like or and that that I think they drive some Joy

00:46:18
from that sort of stupidity. I mean it is it is in line with

00:46:23
like yeah his whole point and it's time to build his like oh

00:46:26
we should the private markets should be trying to do some of

00:46:31
these things better and if they can do them better like we

00:46:33
shouldn't be like oh this is a thing that government needs to

00:46:35
solve like so if it if it turns out that flow helped solve

00:46:39
housing crises, I'm all for it, but I guess we'll have to see.

00:46:44
Yes, right. Yes.

00:46:45
But then I think the piece is like is Adam Newman, worthy of

00:46:50
redemption. I mean, this is a very

00:46:52
complicated question, but and I obviously have lots lots of

00:46:56
opinions. But Ellen, I mean, maybe just

00:47:00
just begin to answer that. You have a stack ranking of his

00:47:04
sins are like, this is always the challenge with Uber people

00:47:07
are, like, what do you think of uber?

00:47:08
And I'm like, well, which issue like, but like what do you think

00:47:11
are like the sins of Adam Newman?

00:47:14
So I think there's a few interesting things that most

00:47:17
people get wrong. About what happened at we work.

00:47:20
Well, first of all, many people think that we work is like

00:47:22
bankrupt. It's not.

00:47:23
It's still around. They're just selling off his

00:47:24
face. He's never been accused of

00:47:26
crime. He's never been knowing that.

00:47:27
That's and that's an important thing is, he has never been

00:47:30
accused of a crime as far as I can tell.

00:47:33
I don't know that he has like committed any sort of crime or

00:47:37
done anything illegal like it's just doesn't seem like that's

00:47:40
really what happened and it had happened.

00:47:42
I think people would have liked if it had been able to be found

00:47:46
out, you know, there's been a career-making move if you Yeah,

00:47:48
there's a couple, there's been a couple very good books about we

00:47:50
work. I would be surprised if those

00:47:52
reporters had surfaced things like that.

00:47:54
And the people who in my mind, got hurt the most on sort of a

00:48:01
like, you know, received kind of like a disproportionate amount

00:48:05
of hurt for it. Were employees, who joined, we

00:48:07
were late in, you know, later on, in the company's, I guess

00:48:12
maybe in the last few years between 2017, and 2018, and that

00:48:17
sucked. And I think for a lot of those

00:48:18
people, it really suck to have bought into this like, you know,

00:48:21
this this vision of what the outcome could have been for the

00:48:25
company and for themselves on and maybe put like the one hand.

00:48:28
It's a bunch of white collar workers.

00:48:29
You thought they're going to get super rich and then they didn't,

00:48:33
but he gots. Yeah, Rich and they had.

00:48:36
So I think I think that's the most egregious like unfairness

00:48:39
of it, which is that like he did have the leverage in order to

00:48:42
extract himself in a way that left other employees, like tons

00:48:46
of people lost their jobs. A lot of people at stock that

00:48:48
Like worthless and like of course that's part of being in a

00:48:52
start-up like you are taking a Gamble and we crash, there's

00:48:55
that scene where you like lays off a bunch of people and then

00:48:57
they have what like some rapper come in.

00:49:00
I mean, do you know if that's true or yeah.

00:49:03
It's Run DMC. And that did really happen.

00:49:05
It's true, it's true. My understanding is there were

00:49:08
like, it was, like, a couple weeks later wasn't like that

00:49:10
night or something, but the point is, yes, I think some of

00:49:13
Adam's worst actions are were like his callousness, his greed,

00:49:17
his kind of It's harder with victims.

00:49:19
It's like, well, he acted unfairly in business sort of,

00:49:22
you know? Yeah, there were, like, I think

00:49:24
some, some financial decisions that were really not Kosher.

00:49:28
But again, there's also, I would say, running a business that

00:49:31
seemed like, it was just gonna like, collapse, if you, it was

00:49:34
allowed to continue, like it was just like, when he didn't get

00:49:37
the extra like, wasn't he supposed to be like a 10 billion

00:49:39
dollar investment or something from SoftBank, right?

00:49:41
What something? Yeah, something like that

00:49:44
fortitude. Trying to get a company to go

00:49:46
public at like 100 billion that ends up being worth.

00:49:48
And there's there's a certain like delusion there like that

00:49:51
that was gonna come crashing down.

00:49:53
Well, and also the atom apologists will say that.

00:49:57
The problem really wasn't so much with the idea of we work or

00:50:00
its growth but was when SoftBank came in and Massa because of his

00:50:03
need to have super-sized Returns on his vision fund, you know,

00:50:09
thesis pushed him to go crazier and crazier.

00:50:11
That's when you have stuff like we were, or we live and we learn

00:50:15
and the really, really stupid shit that, you know, we grow We

00:50:18
grow. Yeah.

00:50:19
I mean, the stuff that became the worst aspects of the busy

00:50:22
basically built a school for his own children.

00:50:25
Like I again remember. We live in, you know, and he

00:50:26
was, he had a hot tub in the office, like that's not an ice

00:50:30
bath. Oh, that's good.

00:50:31
Fact check. Yeah, no, but here's what I was

00:50:33
going to say about about this, is that, okay?

00:50:35
So that's that's one element of the we work story, but from a

00:50:39
pure Venture Capital perspective, we work with a

00:50:42
success Benchmark made money from.

00:50:44
We were early in, we work. That was a great check if you

00:50:47
were late, That was that right? My real takeaway from my piece,

00:50:51
whatever you took about trolling was that the beauty of the

00:50:54
Venture model is its staged Capital.

00:50:57
You have a seed round, you have an a round your the be round if

00:51:00
Andreessen had just written a 20 million dollar.

00:51:02
Check in this thing, people would have still wind about it,

00:51:04
but I think it would have been more reasonable.

00:51:06
It's like okay. He is like really let's give him

00:51:08
another shot and see if the risk goes down over time.

00:51:11
It's the fact that they gave him 350 million that.

00:51:14
It's just like we're going to do the SoftBank thing all over

00:51:16
again. Yeah.

00:51:17
I mean You guys are a little like, glassy-eyed on that one or

00:51:21
what? You don't know if you agree or

00:51:23
not. I don't realize.

00:51:24
I just don't, I didn't get as worked up about it, other than

00:51:27
it was funny. There's no question.

00:51:28
It was funny. And that is one of the goals of

00:51:30
trolling, which is why I Do by your trolling Theses to a degree

00:51:34
is that there are certain people that are going to get mad and

00:51:36
people getting mad about stuff is funny and Adam Newman is a

00:51:38
clown. And when I see him back on the

00:51:41
scene and makes me happy again, so I'm not against the idea of

00:51:44
spending this money which as you pointed out in your piece and

00:51:47
recent needs to deploy. Somehow he had billions and

00:51:50
billions of dollars spread across multiple funds.

00:51:53
There are only so many places to put it Adam Newman as you

00:51:56
pointed out is very good at spending money and so if you

00:51:59
want to get someone to like, that was a good line.

00:52:01
What is it? What better way to deploy excess

00:52:03
Capital than a real estate company run by Adam Newman or

00:52:06
something like that? To quote myself?

00:52:08
Yeah, I like your Kaufman here line.

00:52:09
And then quoting it. And yeah.

00:52:11
So in specific this is way too much.

00:52:14
I don't know if that was word for word you know, but but you

00:52:17
know, I I agree with you, I'm sorry to say like, I think all

00:52:21
of that makes, you know, a ton of sense at least to a degree.

00:52:25
I'm sure Andreessen would love for the money to give returns

00:52:27
that. They can please their LPS, but I

00:52:30
guess if you were to think about what is wrong with this picture

00:52:33
here, if you really want to get mad about something, is that

00:52:36
why? You know, we're also talking

00:52:38
about this several weeks after the, you know, the Democrats

00:52:42
have put forth a bill that remove the, you know, you know,

00:52:45
they weren't able to get rid of the carried interest loophole.

00:52:48
Which would have taxed. A lot of these people to a

00:52:52
degree that they had never been taxed before that.

00:52:54
Maybe would have cried a little bit more equity in the kind of

00:52:57
government and public returns from the kind of excess wealth

00:53:01
that is on display here because of all of these kinds of, you

00:53:05
know, tech companies in the Venture Capital firms are

00:53:07
raising a bunch of money here. So I guess if you really want to

00:53:10
be mad about something, it should be just like the fact

00:53:12
that injuries it has so much money to deploy that they're

00:53:15
willing to take a certain percentage of it, you know,

00:53:17
wrapped up in a troll. Owl and a money-losing scheme

00:53:19
like that, that that makes a little more sense to me than the

00:53:22
specific company that they invested in because it's someone

00:53:25
else's money. It's the LPS problem, it's not

00:53:27
mine. Well, I have a thought, which is

00:53:28
like, I don't do. I mean, I think, Eric, you know,

00:53:30
a little bit more about like sort of the decision-making

00:53:33
behind-the-scenes and injuries and or at least have theories

00:53:37
about it. So I think also a lot of people

00:53:39
could rightfully be really just sort of like mad when they see

00:53:43
this news because they feel that there are like other companies

00:53:47
with other founders. Are not out of Newman who are

00:53:49
more deserving in some way of getting the chance to build a

00:53:54
business. I'm just curious if you think

00:53:56
that and reason would eat. Like, I don't know, is that even

00:53:59
is that even like a realistic? Is it even realistic to think

00:54:01
that if they had chosen not to invest in an atom that they

00:54:04
would have invested in the sort of people that, like, yeah, like

00:54:08
our, I don't know like less likely to get some awesome.

00:54:12
Somebody was saying to me in my mentions, like, or I forget

00:54:15
where one of them but like, I mean there is just like a A

00:54:18
reality, I think, among the wealthy, and like, Silicon

00:54:21
Valley is guilty of this too, where it's like once you've been

00:54:24
a Founder once you've been sea level, it's like, there's almost

00:54:27
like a labor union that never let you fall back.

00:54:29
There's almost it's sort of like the bigger you've gone.

00:54:31
The more they're like, no, you're in our class.

00:54:34
You're like, you're you're gonna get there.

00:54:35
We're going to help you get there.

00:54:36
We'll give you another shot. Like failed.

00:54:38
Founders are some of the most desirable Founders.

00:54:40
There is like, you've been in the class, like, instead of

00:54:43
being like, oh, well, there's this new person, they haven't

00:54:45
even failed. They could they, they have

00:54:48
Fucked up is never even lived in Atherton.

00:54:50
It's not to give them a chance, right?

00:54:53
It's sort of like, he's in the club, he's got, he needs to have

00:54:55
his, we're gonna give him the wig.

00:54:58
I do feel like that's not how anyone, you know, in the world

00:55:01
would articulate it. But I do think that sort of, I

00:55:03
mean, the flip side of that, of course, is that they've had the

00:55:06
experiences, he's sort of seen what jams him up, he knows how

00:55:09
to do it, he was able to do some of the things like that, that

00:55:12
sort of, that's the argument for the repeat founder and I do you

00:55:15
think repeat Founders are somewhat successful but but

00:55:17
there is also So this sense that.

00:55:19
Yeah, once you've broken into the club, now the club isn't

00:55:22
thankfully in America entirely old money, it is very male and

00:55:25
white. But yeah, once you broken in

00:55:27
somehow, it's like, oh now you're in it.

00:55:30
Yeah, but I mean these things are totally zero.

00:55:32
So I'm obviously, there's still lots of other money that's not

00:55:35
necessarily going to meet diverse Founders as they should.

00:55:38
But I do agree with the sentiment that it's like.

00:55:42
Oh man, there's almost a preference.

00:55:44
Like the guy who did badly like the thing.

00:55:47
The thing that It badly on a big scale is what they like, you

00:55:50
know, well, I guess I would just I think we should challenge

00:55:53
Andreessen and all these other investors out there who have a

00:55:56
lot of money, they need to deploy work a little bit harder.

00:55:59
There are women there are minorities.

00:56:01
They're people you wouldn't expect that have really, really

00:56:03
bad ideas. That could be good at Burning

00:56:06
through your money in ways that you wouldn't expect.

00:56:09
And I think you need to look a little bit harder to find but I

00:56:11
was really worried about this tank.

00:56:12
I was like, what is he just gonna give like some sincere and

00:56:16
okay. Yeah.

00:56:18
The world of bad ideas. I just think there are all kinds

00:56:22
of ideas out there that are awful that we haven't explored.

00:56:25
And I think if you expand the Horizon of the kinds of people

00:56:28
who are willing to invest in, you will find new and exciting

00:56:31
ways to do that. And I want to see ya more

00:56:33
diversity of Dylan's personally. Yeah.

00:56:35
And like, look Adam Newman. Did it in one way.

00:56:38
But who's to say, you know, a woman or a minority or other

00:56:40
other kind of in wouldn't do it a different way.

00:56:41
And way, that's fun. I can get their own show and

00:56:43
we've seen Elizabeth Holmes. That's fine.

00:56:45
She's kind of a token, bad female founder.

00:56:47
There are others There are others and I think we should try

00:56:49
to find them. Yeah, don't let Elizabeth Holmes

00:56:51
being the only, yeah, representative team of Founders.

00:56:56
Making bad decisions, right? Unfortunately, she's the one

00:56:59
that actually did get charged with the crime to.

00:57:01
I've even right. She is the worst of them.

00:57:04
Yeah, it is. It is a fortunate, right?

00:57:06
So this is actually a question is, do you think people actually

00:57:08
wouldn't back Elizabeth Holmes again, or do you think if it's

00:57:10
like, the criminal aspect is, that's the line.

00:57:13
People are like, we won't, we won't go there if she had not

00:57:15
been charged with the crime, 100%.

00:57:18
Yes. 100%, yes, and because she has been charged with a crime.

00:57:21
What do you think's going to? Like, what do you think?

00:57:23
Elizabeth Holmes going to be doing?

00:57:24
I think she's crossed the line that they're not.

00:57:26
It's, there's only so much. You can actually troll it.

00:57:29
I do think maybe in a couple of years, when we really get black

00:57:31
pilled about stuff. You could see, Elizabeth,

00:57:34
Holmes, getting money again for stuff.

00:57:36
And I don't know if she actually, is she legally barred

00:57:38
from running a company and points Crowley's, sort of coming

00:57:42
back and he's trying to find their ways around the law.

00:57:44
But yeah, I do think I do think Elizabeth Holmes because she You

00:57:49
know, she built something to a degree and she was able to

00:57:52
successfully raise a lot of money.

00:57:53
She had that kind of Messianic cult leader type ability to

00:57:57
convince investors that she had a Grand Vision.

00:57:59
I do think she had a Grand Vision but I love we skirted

00:58:02
this whole thing with Travis kalanick because what he raised

00:58:04
from like the Saudis use like fuck everybody.

00:58:06
Like I'm gonna do it just like it is, I don't know.

00:58:10
Yeah, he's not doing PR but I mean, Travis is already raised a

00:58:13
ton of money. So yeah, and an Uber is of the

00:58:17
three of the most valuable companies.

00:58:18
P'nay. So it's, you know, he wouldn't

00:58:20
even really be considered. Like, that would nothing Event

00:58:22
Horizon surprising at all. His was just a fight with his

00:58:26
board and stuff. But but yeah, I think Elizabeth,

00:58:30
Holmes, 100% would be able to raise a new round if it weren't

00:58:33
for the criminally, only a couple of people to think it's a

00:58:35
good idea right now. That's that's the thing, people

00:58:38
always underestimate about the Venture model, you know.

00:58:41
This was yeah I mean with we work it was really like two

00:58:45
people had to agree that we work was worth, forty seven billion.

00:58:48
It was a demand Masa and they did that's why that's why the

00:58:51
company had that tag and now now that the value of we work is

00:58:57
being decided by many people, it's less, right?

00:58:59
Exactly. Maybe we can just close here on

00:59:02
this aspect because this is a perfect question for you Ln

00:59:05
because you do have experience with intentional living and

00:59:08
these sort of things. I mean what would it take for

00:59:11
you to live in an Adam Newman started and branded code living

00:59:15
situation? What do you look for?

00:59:18
What It needs to be Innovative. I mean, well, the, the

00:59:20
translators I would do it for a story today.

00:59:22
So, yeah, sign me. Sign me up, send me to South,

00:59:24
Florida. I mean, you know, maybe like

00:59:27
they give you some Burning Man, like software tools to prepare

00:59:31
your Camp. Then then you go.

00:59:33
I mean if I can get on my communal living soapbox for just

00:59:36
a second. I don't think that shared

00:59:38
amenity Apartments count as to me, like, actual co-living to

00:59:42
me, I think I have, I have found that the way that you bring

00:59:45
people together at their home, is by sharing a kitchen.

00:59:48
That's all. Thank you.

00:59:49
I just have to share a kitchen and Shirin occurrence.

00:59:52
Gina currency within the household of sure token and

00:59:55
everybody votes on the down. Let's just make sure that those

00:59:59
are need housing script, that's it.

01:00:01
I was thinking on the day, I mean, part of what's cool about

01:00:04
your sort of intentional living is, you know, you guys have

01:00:07
these, like, governing documents.

01:00:08
I mean, it is sort of if you bring it up, dude.

01:00:10
Yeah. We were down before.

01:00:11
Doubts like work. Right, right.

01:00:13
We don't have a token. But I did write a story a couple

01:00:16
months ago about like a Company that's trying to do like van

01:00:19
lice and communal living and they are going to run a lot of

01:00:23
their business by a down and they're like really into the

01:00:26
idea that web three philosophy and Technologies can help scale

01:00:31
communities by having this sort of governance token type thing.

01:00:34
I won't get too much into it but that, you know, there are, you

01:00:36
know, people who are into Community are looking at.

01:00:41
Yeah. Sort of crypto tools to help

01:00:43
manage it but just to be clear, your advice to Adam Newman.

01:00:47
Is it for this too? Work.

01:00:48
You need people fighting over the leftovers in the fridge.

01:00:51
No, in fact, the opposite is I think fighting like, it takes so

01:00:54
much effort to fight over the kitchen.

01:00:56
So, like, no one actually wants that, so I think he's, it's like

01:01:00
they're calling it. I guess, what?

01:01:01
I'm arguing is not there. They might, they might call it

01:01:04
and we don't know that they're calling it co-living.

01:01:05
I we work. They like sort of called it

01:01:07
co-living and I argue that that's not the real deal.

01:01:09
The Real Deals when you have to argue, you're saying they want.

01:01:12
I think they will see me what I want and they don't do any of

01:01:14
you community. Like yes, what do you think they

01:01:16
could apply that at scale like Do you think your no one is

01:01:19
sharing a kitchen and they still call it Community?

01:01:22
I argue that that's false Community.

01:01:24
I agree with you. You need to be forced to break

01:01:26
bread. Yeah.

01:01:27
And and, and you can take it a step further.

01:01:30
I mean, I have cousins in Israel that live on kibbutz, teaming

01:01:33
and raise their children. Communally, like there are

01:01:36
multiple parents there, the, you know, that, that all call

01:01:38
themselves at their most people, they call Mom and Dad because of

01:01:41
that, which is something Adam Newman is probably very familiar

01:01:43
with. I think that's really cool.

01:01:45
So, of Andreessen, Horowitz does this.

01:01:47
The right way, they can be Game with people's children before we

01:01:49
know it. You know Jesus Christ I read was

01:01:52
I wouldn't be surprised if you want to be living in these

01:01:55
things. Like if it's not even an

01:01:57
overstatement like you know, it's I mean yeah it would be

01:02:02
cool to have like if they you know to have like tween old

01:02:05
child care and stuff like that, I'd be like, that's something

01:02:08
people would probably be really into, but I don't know if that's

01:02:10
exactly the demographic, they're going for, we don't really know

01:02:12
what Rebecca in charge of it. Yeah, well that's part of the

01:02:15
idea here to, for sure. And, you know, plus You know,

01:02:18
with Ilan trying to repopulate the world.

01:02:20
We're seeing a lot of different approaches to both the creation

01:02:22
and the earrings. So I think we should be more

01:02:25
open to The Innovation that they think that they're that they're

01:02:28
stumbling across. But anyway, we should probably

01:02:31
wrap it up here. This is so fun.

01:02:32
I mean, it's just nice, it's always good.

01:02:34
When you have a podcast where you're like, oh I just want to

01:02:36
hang out with this person anyway so we can have them on.

01:02:39
Thanks for coming. We hope the feeling's mutual.

01:02:41
Yeah. This was very fun.

01:02:43
I'm glad to be part of the Year best Rolodex.

01:02:46
Yeah, exactly. It's a who's who?

01:02:48
Ooh. Yeah, our podcast Co-op we like

01:02:50
to call it. You're now part of the dead.

01:02:52
Cat communal, living situation. Goodbye,

01:03:07
goodbye. Goodbye, goodbye.

01:03:09
Goodbye goodbye. Goodbye.

01:03:11
Goodbye.