On the latest episode of Dead Cat, we throw our weight behind Elon Musk’s bid for Twitter.
Katie Benner, Tom Dotan, and I make our predictions about whether Musk is going to succeed in his mission to acquire Twitter. (I’m betting against.)
Dotan offers Musk a Plan B: Musk could buy the beleaguered photo pin board company Pinterest for a measly $15 billion.
I celebrate venture capitalist Marc Andreessen’s recent Easter absolution: He inexplicably unblocked me on Twitter.
Meanwhile, Benner, who gave up Twitter for lent, brings us the good word about what life looks like post-Twitter — a reality we could all one-day face if Musk is able to bring the company crashing to the ground.
Give it a listen.
Get full access to Newcomer at www.newcomer.co/subscribe
00:00:06
Welcome, silicon salad. I have been following what's
00:00:14
happening, but the thing is, is the eye to eye left Twitter for
00:00:17
lunch. So at span.
00:00:21
So following what's happening with Twitter?
00:00:23
But not big on Twitter is sort of fascinating because unlike,
00:00:27
oh, gosh, I had forgotten that anybody use has this service,
00:00:31
right? We can treat it like a business
00:00:33
and not like some sort of like cradle of democracy, right?
00:00:37
Because the, the funny thing is, if you are not on Twitter at
00:00:39
all, you still get news up almost as fast or as fast as you
00:00:45
would get it by being on Twitter all day.
00:00:47
And you don't actually experienced a lot of bad things.
00:00:51
So your view of people is so much more positive, that's an
00:00:55
interesting. But are you seeing the Tweets in
00:00:58
news stories? Or you feel You're still getting
00:01:01
the distillation of know but at the tweets are say about
00:01:04
Ukraine. I feel like I get all the
00:01:07
actually useful information, right?
00:01:08
Get on Twitter by reading like a very good news story in the Wall
00:01:12
Street Journal or the times huh? I don't think I'm missing out on
00:01:15
November time, people competing over, who has been an Eastern
00:01:20
European expert for the least long giving the least informed
00:01:24
opinion about what to do about a no-fly.
00:01:26
So we're here with dead cat. By the way, I'm happy to start.
00:01:29
The episode, you're just saying, she's not even on Twitter at the
00:01:33
moment because I was constructed in, it's sort of related but
00:01:36
opposite direction. Yeah, it's sort of a hang out
00:01:40
and talk about Elon episode is Eric and Tom and Katie are
00:01:43
you're just listening to Katy. Tell us she's given up Twitter
00:01:47
for Lent, right? I've been doing the opposite and
00:01:50
have been obsessively, tweeting Non-Stop and the big and
00:01:54
straight gluttony that I have in sort of I don't know, Mythos of
00:01:59
the Go Marc Andreessen unblocked me on Twitter idea like within
00:02:04
the last day or two. So uh the inspiration for the
00:02:07
name of the show is as freed me from my long-held band.
00:02:12
What do you think? Did it for him?
00:02:13
Can we get this been? He's flirting with the idea of
00:02:16
like I think for Easter sort of forgiving is blocklist, you know
00:02:22
all at once but right now the last I saw from him was that he
00:02:26
was just he'd pulled his followers and And most of them
00:02:30
like 60/40 said, no forgiveness, but I don't know, my came out
00:02:36
before that, or if he did, I have no idea.
00:02:39
But I just wonder. Do you think he is observing?
00:02:44
Do you think he observes like something?
00:02:46
Akin to lent? Some sort of, like, practice
00:02:50
rounds are like, wanting to take 40 days to clear the decks to
00:02:56
get deeper. I just, I just Shit on him like
00:03:01
yesterday. So I was like easy for him.
00:03:04
Every I know, right? I literally that's the test.
00:03:06
That's the test that Christ puts upon his, his greatest disciples
00:03:10
is to deal with. Yeah.
00:03:12
I mean, he'll I mean, I'd said, you know, to me it feels like
00:03:15
moderate Democrat position is, you know, actually, these things
00:03:19
are very complicated, you know, moderation is complicated, and
00:03:22
the Elan P Marcus Saks view is, it's not complicated, and then I
00:03:26
retweeted it. I said to put a finer point on
00:03:29
this and And recent sits on Facebook's board, he knows on
00:03:32
some level. That moderation is extremely
00:03:34
complicated to just boil it down to good versus bad.
00:03:37
Framed feel so, insincere to what end?
00:03:40
So we can have more fun on Twitter than if you decided to
00:03:43
be serious. So, I guess that actually does
00:03:47
go straight to the question of what is Twitter for.
00:03:50
So if it's really just for fun and fun can be, there's
00:03:53
benevolent and malevolent fun. There's all sorts of fun than
00:03:57
having it be this sort of free-for-all.
00:04:00
Of cancellation and toxicity, but also like, interesting
00:04:05
restaurant recommendation. I mean, I can see why that would
00:04:08
kind of be fine if that's what your view of what Twitter's for,
00:04:11
but for people who might want it used a something else, or the
00:04:15
sort of weird ideal of a towns Town Square.
00:04:18
It never made sense to me. That would, that would be
00:04:21
problematic. I think that's a great frame
00:04:24
because I do think part of the conflict on Twitter is like,
00:04:27
yeah. I want to have this Earnest like
00:04:29
we're going to Solve. You know, we're going to figure
00:04:31
this thing out and sort of this public discussion but I do think
00:04:34
there's a lot of like real politics or views of Twitter
00:04:37
where it's like actually you get much more engagement if you're
00:04:39
funny and people enjoy it and you construct things and as an
00:04:44
us-versus-them posture. So if you're really smart
00:04:47
instead of Being Earnest, you operate on some sort of, you
00:04:51
know, you play a game, you're fun.
00:04:53
You make me. So, don't we all just sort of
00:04:56
like vacillate between the different experiences of
00:04:59
Twitter. Different times, right?
00:05:01
I mean, like, no one uses it just for one reason and can
00:05:04
exclude it to the others. Like sometimes you're there
00:05:06
because you feel like it's a good news source, sometimes you
00:05:09
want to hate people and see what they say in like a medium that
00:05:13
makes it very easy to hate them and sometimes you just want to
00:05:15
express your own opinions. So it's funny that like, you
00:05:18
know, even he can't really decide as to what the experience
00:05:21
is and like, what the actual mode which is why I mean if
00:05:24
we're going to we're going to get to Elon as yeah.
00:05:26
You want to set that up. I feel like we really came in
00:05:28
orthogonally. You've been on Twitter.
00:05:41
Eric then you know we can get slightly matter, rock me.
00:05:45
But I can't I can't look and see if you unblock me for another
00:05:48
two days. Okay that's fine.
00:05:50
I can wait. I just going to you're doing
00:05:52
something for Lent when we were all just talking about the
00:05:53
Passover things that we were going to.
00:05:56
I don't feel like doing well and I'm I love The male's.
00:06:02
So lets you know, let our audience in as we frequently do
00:06:06
on the show a little behind the scenes.
00:06:07
We do not record the show live and post it.
00:06:10
We do it a couple days before it comes out.
00:06:11
So this is being recorded on Passover, Saturday.
00:06:14
I think it's April 16th and in the last two weeks there has
00:06:18
been quite a flurry of stories about power user Elon Musk who
00:06:25
has decided to launch a what now is undeniably a A hostile bid to
00:06:31
acquire Twitter, using money that he, I don't know, maybe
00:06:35
we'll find it, is Easter egg hunt tomorrow.
00:06:37
It's not really clear where that cash is coming from.
00:06:39
And so that has then, of course, launched a counter measure by
00:06:44
Twitter's board to Institute, a poison pill.
00:06:48
I don't know what the verb would be, like the over adjective.
00:06:50
Like a poison pill, poison pill strategy, a poison pill every
00:06:55
strategy. Yeah, yeah.
00:06:57
To basically dilute their own Shares in order to stop you
00:07:01
lying for buying more shares on the public markets and now we've
00:07:04
got, you know, the banks are involved.
00:07:06
I read the other day that like, Twitter has taken on Goldman as
00:07:10
one of their Goldman and JP Morgan's advisor.
00:07:12
Oh, okay. Yeah, sure.
00:07:14
You all know working with Morgan, Stanley was in the mix,
00:07:20
and then we've got reporting. Now, that elon's trying to talk
00:07:24
to Silverlake, who's worked with him in the past to see if they
00:07:27
would come on on isn't silver. Like still a Huge investor in
00:07:30
Twitter. I think that would be a complex
00:07:32
word. There are they still own like a
00:07:34
huge amount of stock. You think you own didn't know
00:07:37
that? Yeah, well thought through.
00:07:44
All right, did you guys did you watch the Ted interview?
00:07:46
I think that's not one of us started.
00:07:48
Now, I helped him because you know this is what so that I
00:07:52
could tweet more. I mean you on you know clearly
00:07:57
doesn't have the money secured he does.
00:07:59
In really have he wasn't like I'm certainly going to be able
00:08:05
to do this. It was like, oh yeah I don't
00:08:07
know is more Middle Lane, he acknowledged in the interview
00:08:11
the possibility of a plan B, you know which sounded like AKA
00:08:17
launch another product or something.
00:08:18
You know. Which oh, that'll that'll have
00:08:20
talked about. Yeah, Plan B is I mean, I can
00:08:23
barely keep people on the platform donut.
00:08:26
Yeah. You know, launched a competitor
00:08:28
to Twitter or something? No.
00:08:29
But It's what I mean, right? Yeah.
00:08:31
The desire for a Twitter product is so not there.
00:08:35
That even a product like Twitter is having a hard time keeping
00:08:37
people but anyways, right? Parlor, true social not beacons
00:08:42
of successful social media companies at the moment and I
00:08:46
think like to me the central point and we've already sort of
00:08:48
touched on this as just where's the money coming from?
00:08:51
Like if you're if you're buying a company, you need to have the
00:08:53
money and the pitch he gave was not like oh we're really going
00:08:58
to turn Twitter around and it's going to A great business.
00:09:01
It's like no censorship open up the algorithm his sort of minor
00:09:06
product changes. You know, he doesn't even love
00:09:08
advertising its core business. So I don't know how if you're a
00:09:11
financially money to investor you decide to come alongside
00:09:13
him. All right.
00:09:14
Well also I mean test that promise open it up at a million,
00:09:18
great tweets Blossom. I think that the problem with
00:09:22
that, as a as a board member is just the amount of litigation.
00:09:27
I mean like what, what kind of money are you?
00:09:29
You setting aside for the lawsuits and for you know the
00:09:34
extraordinary bad press. I thought the law states of
00:09:37
having no moderation at all. Yeah, exactly.
00:09:39
Like the weird harms that come out of it.
00:09:41
You know the active shooter situation say on a crowded
00:09:45
Subway where somebody has been using Twitter's?
00:09:48
Well you know it's just like you just start thinking to yourself
00:09:51
like maybe there was a reason why these companies put in
00:09:54
place, moderation and change their algorithms that weren't
00:09:58
simply in order. Serve the common good but had
00:10:01
some benefit probably Financial or legal to the company.
00:10:05
I saw there were a lot of people tweeting about that Elon had not
00:10:08
fully thought through any aspect of this.
00:10:11
See, this is why I'm not missing anything by not being on Twitter
00:10:13
continue, right? It's all playing I mean
00:10:15
basically he's live tweeting his way into an acquisition, but
00:10:18
that's as much as he thought it out, but the idea that it could
00:10:21
be a free-for-all, of course, like, you know, Twitter is
00:10:23
barely hanging on as it is, in terms of it being like a
00:10:27
reasonable place, to spend your time, like it's instant hit.
00:10:29
A shitshow of false news and, you know, borderline well, there
00:10:33
actually is just straight-up horn on there, but you know what
00:10:35
I mean? Like, graphic content.
00:10:37
Yeah, I'm people just screaming at one another right, right.
00:10:40
And so, for you to pull all of that back, God knows like, what
00:10:43
hell it would look like. I'd like the pure undiluted
00:10:46
Twitter and I don't think he really does either, right?
00:10:48
And I'm sure if you were to spend five minutes on it that
00:10:51
you know, that version of Twitter, even, he would probably
00:10:54
say like, yeah, this is, this is not good.
00:10:56
This can't be like the Free Speech.
00:10:57
I'd like what his voice was shouted down.
00:10:59
Well, yeah, that's when it really becomes a problem.
00:11:01
Well, so I feel like they're just structure of this a little
00:11:05
bit like there are two sort of buckets, right?
00:11:09
There's a sort of financial tactics of Elon taking over
00:11:12
Twitter and then there's like elon's vision for the reforms,
00:11:19
right? I mean, yeah.
00:11:20
I mean, like I think the more I'm curious about what you guys
00:11:22
think of is, what does like? Let's put aside, how will he get
00:11:26
the money? Will he get?
00:11:27
Because he could could drum up the money in 24 hours.
00:11:29
Right? And this will all be.
00:11:30
Absolutely. He does have the money.
00:11:31
I mean he'd it's not liquid. But yeah, great.
00:11:34
So it's like I think I would love to know what you got.
00:11:36
What does Twitter look like after Ilan takes it over?
00:11:40
Like, what does that world look like Mass resignation of
00:11:43
employees? That was the first thing.
00:11:45
Absolutely, it's likely. There's no way it could be a
00:11:48
public stock at that point, because its value would be just
00:11:51
torpedoed by appellant about, you know, outflow of talent of
00:11:55
people not wanting to work at that.
00:11:56
Come. Now, I'm not saying they're not
00:11:57
replaceable, but it would be an immediate At walk out, I would
00:12:00
guess what? 50 60 percent.
00:12:03
Well I guess it'd make up the star.
00:12:04
They employ Last by merging with true, social great.
00:12:07
Well, write all this was happening on Twitter key through
00:12:11
a boy, who knows, sort of Elon World tweeted that.
00:12:15
You know, I'd SpaceX Elon had seen line of interns were
00:12:20
waiting for coffee and Ilan. Told them if they didn't get to
00:12:23
work, he would fire them all. And, you know, Keith was holding
00:12:26
this up. It's sort of like a beacon of
00:12:28
what he Lon. Could bring Twitter, you know,
00:12:31
no more interns getting caffeinated.
00:12:34
And again, that's probably true, right?
00:12:39
First things. First elon's, let you fire.
00:12:41
The interns for waiting for housing, we touched on during
00:12:43
the TV show episode. Just like, you know, no
00:12:46
reporters are cheering for hard work.
00:12:49
And keep those definitely getting tons of scolds on
00:12:52
Twitter or like this, who this is terrible.
00:12:54
You're like, telling on yourself, basically.
00:12:56
But yeah, I mean there is, you know, Lines going to crack down
00:13:00
on people. If you takes over and I don't
00:13:03
think you have a rocket ship company level mission to
00:13:07
convince people that this is worth worth your time and your
00:13:11
skills are probably much more transferable if you're working
00:13:14
at Twitter to other tech companies.
00:13:17
And yeah, a lot of these people do believe in moderation and
00:13:20
don't want to be responsible for just like amplifying Donald
00:13:24
Trump again or whatever it would be.
00:13:26
Okay. So in addition to employees
00:13:28
fleeing, Shareholders. If they take the company private
00:13:32
there they will, the stock will plummet and value ahead of that.
00:13:37
Don't you think it would be probably the time said before
00:13:39
that? Does, he can't take it private
00:13:41
overnight. So once it's clear that he's
00:13:44
going to do it, I mean, how many but is it Vanguard?
00:13:47
And what would they just dump it, right?
00:13:49
But, or do they not or they blushing because they have to
00:13:54
their, they have to have to be locked in.
00:13:56
I think it's just a tender offer for their shares, right?
00:13:58
Yeah, if he's seriously. To do it, shouldn't the price.
00:14:01
Just rise. The price would rise to whatever
00:14:03
he's promised. No you're right, you're right
00:14:04
the president? Well yes, you'd lock in the
00:14:06
price and then it would if this the you're right Vanguard would
00:14:11
have to say yes because to be responsible to their
00:14:13
shareholders, they don't have to be like we are taking this $52
00:14:17
or share or whatever 5420 5420 and so even if the stock, even
00:14:23
if people started fleeing the stock today, it only makes his
00:14:26
offer look mr. The end of the day.
00:14:28
Ironically, so, Ones like basically.
00:14:31
Well, that's the haircut Elon Musk right now.
00:14:34
They cannot get away from Elon Musk, even just to think of it
00:14:36
as an investment for Ilan or whatever it would be.
00:14:39
Seems like a bad move. Like, there's no way that the
00:14:41
value of this thing is going to increase while under Ilan
00:14:44
stewardship at least in the short term, right?
00:14:46
I mean he's like doesn't seem particularly interested in the
00:14:49
ad business which is probably the only good business aspect of
00:14:53
Twitter, right? So one thing that's really
00:14:54
functioned over the last couple of years is like they can sell
00:14:57
ads and so if that's going to go away which Probably would be
00:15:00
damaged by it, being a toxic company or at least a
00:15:03
controversial company. So advertisers would not want to
00:15:06
spend a huge amount of their money there.
00:15:07
You know, it would probably be like a ten year project to
00:15:10
remake waiter. Who's he actually going to
00:15:12
appoint as CEO? Is he going to do it?
00:15:15
I mean Tesla's stock would obviously tank how many
00:15:18
companies can this guy, right? And how?
00:15:21
Yeah to Tom's Point, how would it make money if he destroys the
00:15:24
advertising business by driving advertisers off of it?
00:15:27
He was talking about subscription being a more
00:15:29
robust. Well for them and I would love
00:15:31
it if that were the model because then I would certainly
00:15:33
just delete my account, right? Great, there'd be no reason to
00:15:36
be on anymore. I thought you tweeted this or
00:15:38
something, you know, everybody can be verified, if they pay
00:15:42
something that's that money. Well, is it though?
00:15:49
Because I think that especially if it's a subscription-based
00:15:53
model, the idea of being on it to to take the temperature of a
00:15:57
certain type of person. It goes, Way?
00:16:00
Because it's good. Heart got to pay money.
00:16:02
I mean, why would you need to be on it?
00:16:04
But you could charge People based on the Emoji that they
00:16:06
want to have in their name to provide their experts, you know.
00:16:10
So it's like when covid wig as well.
00:16:12
That was just putting MD or PhD in your in your Twitter handle.
00:16:15
So that lets say that's a freebie and even then a crane.
00:16:18
So if it's something you can buy though, then there's no
00:16:21
verification for expertise, so even the symbol has no meaning,
00:16:24
right? Yeah, it's just a skin.
00:16:26
But yeah. So if you want to have the
00:16:28
Ukrainian flag in your Handle. That'll cost you like a monthly
00:16:31
subscription cost, you know, whatever the next thing is well
00:16:34
your Twitter. So if you want to put like the
00:16:36
the red bird in your handle that also costs money and then you
00:16:40
know that again if you're monetizing your core user base,
00:16:43
you're sort of going through like the Discord model.
00:16:46
I think that's an option and that the only issue though is
00:16:50
that Twitter is not particularly like sticky platform, most
00:16:54
people love fighting and so you're saying in your business
00:16:59
Saying we're going to make our core Revenue stream, people who
00:17:05
love fighting so much that they will buy emojis, okay?
00:17:10
Just making sure the then you if you want to watch it, you also
00:17:12
have to pay. It's like a pay-per-view thing.
00:17:14
I feel like on the highest level the contradiction of Twitter is
00:17:17
that it's super powerful with Elites who love it and use it
00:17:20
obsessively and that's sort of its World shaping power, but a
00:17:25
lot of the things those people want Would be terrible for like
00:17:29
getting a broad user base. That makes it appealing to
00:17:33
everyone and it feels like a lot of what Elon wants are like
00:17:36
improvements that the hardcore sort of Twitter set uses my
00:17:42
question you guys are you not kind of rooting for Ilan a
00:17:45
little bit in this process and I feel like if you're not ready
00:17:49
for him, you're kind of a chump. I'm rooting for him in that it
00:17:53
feels like I just want to sort of simplistic view of content.
00:17:57
Duration to come crumbling down. I just do think would be more
00:18:00
fun. Elon is responsible for this
00:18:02
Twitter problem. Let it be on sort of the right
00:18:05
to show that they can actually run some like cultural project
00:18:10
successfully. And then we can have a little
00:18:12
liberal parlors our own version of like silly like ancillary
00:18:16
social networks where but like, but I feel like David Sachs was
00:18:20
literally, like, if the game is fair, Elon, Elon will buy
00:18:23
Twitter if the game is rigged. There will be some reason why he
00:18:26
won't be able to. You were about to find out how
00:18:29
deep the corruption goes like this coming from like, the free
00:18:31
marketer people are supposed crying and people have all sorts
00:18:35
of founder protections for their, you know, CEOs to make
00:18:37
sure that other companies don't come in, just take them over,
00:18:40
like, it's just on its face, just like so stupid.
00:18:44
It does not leave. Open the option that if Elon
00:18:47
doesn't buy it, it's just because he woke up one morning
00:18:49
was like, fuck. I don't want to write an hour
00:18:51
ago reply to this tweet, indeed, you know, but it's like, idiots,
00:18:56
you know? It's like There's a very high
00:18:58
chance definitely my presumption.
00:19:00
First of all, I need to get on the record.
00:19:02
Is that this is Elon doesn't intend to do this.
00:19:05
This is a man who's threatened a private.
00:19:07
I take private before the Never Happened.
00:19:09
Someone that was the best when he said he was Tesla.
00:19:13
Tesla was like I have your violence.
00:19:15
I don't remember so. So Tesla and then he literally
00:19:19
in his Ted Talk all over the place.
00:19:20
He's like I have no respect for the SEC so it's a man who is
00:19:24
happy to try and push the limit of sec.
00:19:27
Rules to drive them in fucking crazy.
00:19:30
So this is a fun game there. He could have a successful
00:19:34
pump-and-dump like he's raising the Twitter share price.
00:19:37
I mean there are so many reasons.
00:19:39
It's like a fun thing. The guy wants PR, if he intends
00:19:42
to launch another social network, this is great PR for
00:19:45
that. And if he gets to walk away and
00:19:47
say, the game's rigged because people don't understand that,
00:19:50
you can offer a premium to a company's share price, and that
00:19:53
doesn't mean that the board concludes this, the best
00:19:56
financial value, That's standard.
00:19:58
Ma, you know, like it's hard though because I don't think
00:20:01
there's another rival. Usually boards can get, they can
00:20:03
wiggle out of formula by saying well when we went with the other
00:20:07
great buyer, we usually the price is the 52-week, high or
00:20:11
something. I'm yeah.
00:20:13
And this is not like on this sort of traditional MMA
00:20:16
analysis. I don't think that this is like
00:20:19
a clear-cut like that's a good price.
00:20:21
It's above the price. Yeah but snotty two-week high as
00:20:24
referencing a kind of a logical point in the Gets were all tech
00:20:28
stocks were surging. And, like, all of them were at
00:20:30
these absurd levels given their business growth.
00:20:32
I mean, he should probably make a strong argument saying that
00:20:36
Twitter will never see that high again, right.
00:20:38
I think it's totally illogical. Well Aaron levie at box whose
00:20:42
prolific on Twitter? Said, come on man.
00:20:45
Most people could put together a business strategy that supports
00:20:47
more than fifty four dollars a share for Twitter and David
00:20:50
Sachs said if it's so obvious. Why didn't anyone make a bit
00:20:54
before? I mean I think I agree with sex
00:20:56
on that but us So to pause, Eric, I would love it.
00:21:00
If you obsessively read, Twitter, and then compiled all
00:21:04
of the very best Tweets as you've done for us now and sent
00:21:08
Tom. And I are small dossier at the
00:21:09
end of each day to let us know. I know, I know.
00:21:13
Yeah, some of the newsletters do aggregate tweets.
00:21:15
Maybe I should my problem in Life, or in the game of content
00:21:19
creation is that once I've consumed something, I assume
00:21:22
everyone has seen it. And I'm like, that's obvious.
00:21:25
So what's interesting about it? You know what I mean?
00:21:28
I need to accept that I am consuming insane level of
00:21:31
Twitter relative. Even you guys let alone my own
00:21:35
readers, who are probably interested.
00:21:37
There are three different tiers here.
00:21:38
I mean, there's obviously you at the top and then me and then
00:21:40
Katie is, you know, in the midst of her lent.
00:21:43
Also, yeah. Cuz I like I've my tweets about
00:21:46
a deleted every couple weeks for, I think six years now or
00:21:50
something a really long time. But because I gave up Twitter
00:21:53
for lunch, I've run through the amount of tweets that exist
00:21:56
there of all deleted. So, So I think that they all
00:21:58
finally disappeared off the day, the New York Times said that
00:22:02
reporter shouldn't have to be on tour.
00:22:04
And I got like so many emails from people that were like, did
00:22:08
you delete your right? We're off.
00:22:17
Didn't mean dean pique Force you off the platform you love and
00:22:20
it's like, no, I felt it. Twitter was interfering with my
00:22:24
relationship with God and I had to learn Well anyway yeah, very
00:22:31
funny. Another thing I think Elon could
00:22:32
work on your core. Question was do we want this to
00:22:35
happen and I'm sincere. I know it can sound
00:22:38
tongue-in-cheek that I want but it's like I actually I do think
00:22:41
Twitter is sort of it's not clear whether it's good for me
00:22:43
or bad for me. Net.
00:22:45
Like if they made it worse than maybe I'd be free of it.
00:22:47
So I'm it's something. I'm happy to see sort of blown
00:22:49
up. So I'm willing to risk it.
00:22:51
And I would sort of enjoy putting the burden of like, I
00:22:55
mean, the whole my whole frustration with sir, Of the
00:22:58
Silicon Valley. Republican crew is like they
00:23:00
don't have to govern, you know, for a very pragmatic group of
00:23:03
people. It feels like they don't have a
00:23:04
governing vision for the world, it's just like their anti
00:23:08
anything the Democrats do without supporting a party that
00:23:11
has a governing vision. And similarly on this, it's like
00:23:14
oh they hate moderation. But anybody I mean there's a
00:23:17
great thread from the former Reddit Co yishan that basically
00:23:22
made the argument that anybody who has to moderate a social
00:23:26
media company eventually. Totally non partisan.
00:23:29
Reasons comes to conclude the, you need to moderate things just
00:23:33
because it because the lack of moderation starts destroying the
00:23:36
platform that people get so obsessed with something or that.
00:23:40
Even if something, you know, there's absolutely like when
00:23:44
companies like Facebook and read it moved to introduce some sort
00:23:47
of moderation, it really wasn't because they were trying to just
00:23:51
help people and make their experience great.
00:23:54
For some sort of benign reason they're like, we We we have 24
00:23:59
for money reasons, right? It's a business but no one
00:24:03
really wants to go to tell their CMO like oh we are we just
00:24:06
bought a hundred thousand dollars worth of banner ads at
00:24:09
the Neo-Nazi watering hole, right?
00:24:11
Where the conservatives would say that is sort of this is our
00:24:15
way of backing in the liberal like oppressive regime.
00:24:18
Basically we create this anger that puts the pressure on the
00:24:22
platforms and then they have to react and we say oh well it's
00:24:26
just business. So I, that is that's the
00:24:30
counter-argument. I'm not even, you know, like
00:24:32
ideological about it for me, it's just like, first of all,
00:24:35
it's the most fun outcome. Like, I'm just rooting for the
00:24:38
thing. That would be the most amusing
00:24:39
and entertaining the most fun though time at this point.
00:24:42
Yeah. Like I'm sure we're all well,
00:24:45
yeah, I don't know if you're going to get back onto the
00:24:46
platform, but yeah, I'm sure it can have huge social or moderate
00:24:50
social impacts if it becomes, you know, truly on filtered and
00:24:54
unfettered. But I also just think, like, it
00:24:57
puts Front and center. The fact that it's been kind of
00:24:59
a shitty business or it's like it's naturally business.
00:25:02
It's been an okay business, but it kind of shitty tech company
00:25:05
for the last couple of years. And we're supposed to pretend
00:25:07
that like, the alternative is it to keep doing what it's been
00:25:09
doing. I mean, Twitter has a
00:25:11
placeholder CEO right now. He was a, you know, high-level
00:25:14
executive Twitter that when Jack step down which by the way Jack
00:25:18
claims he did not know this was going to happen when he did that
00:25:20
probably know. We sort of what sort of put in
00:25:22
there. So there's no real strategy.
00:25:23
Clear. They like he didn't come in here
00:25:24
with like a 10-point plan of had a turn this company And this was
00:25:28
all about having someone else, you know, at the helm of this
00:25:31
clearly unpalatable ship, the ads, business continues to like
00:25:34
reel off more Revenue because they have this one particular
00:25:37
Avenue that we don't need to get into because it might bore
00:25:40
listeners. But, but, yes, they have an
00:25:44
accident, but the product fucking sucks.
00:25:47
Anytime you tell someone, who hasn't been on Twitter before
00:25:49
you should check it out, which you would never do.
00:25:51
But like, you know, like my mom every so often goes on and
00:25:53
realizes that it's the worst. Almost unreadable user
00:25:56
interface. It's just Full of the most
00:25:58
unhinged post that get promoted to the top.
00:26:00
Its Ben, you need to be on incessantly to know what they're
00:26:02
talking about. I feel like if I check out for a
00:26:04
couple days, you don't even get the jokes anymore.
00:26:06
I don't know how you still here, but it wasn't for like either.
00:26:10
Your brain is like networked to Twitter itself and you're like,
00:26:15
oh there, there this is sort of a light Riff on.
00:26:18
So, I mean to give an example, which I think you guys saw
00:26:22
Hunter walk who we had on in love had a tweet where he was
00:26:26
complaining. I think it was about the Elan
00:26:28
thing. He basically said instead of
00:26:31
buying Twitter Elon could give every person like a million
00:26:34
dollars, right? Like just like an absurd like
00:26:37
the math doesn't work out. Sort of tweet, that was a joke
00:26:40
on Michael bloom. When Michael Bloomberg was
00:26:42
running, somebody had made his similar, I think earnestly dumb
00:26:46
tweet about about that but that Hunter walked, we went extremely
00:26:50
viral because all the Liberals retweeted it sincerely and all
00:26:54
the conservatives quote tweeted it.
00:26:57
Saying dunking on it for being a terrible analysis and only like
00:27:01
you know this small circle of Silicon Valley, people who know
00:27:04
Hunter and followed this like understood that this was
00:27:07
originally meant to be a joke about this for no, Michael
00:27:11
Bloomberg. Yeah it just right.
00:27:12
It speaks to me the intersection of like building Twitter for the
00:27:16
masses. The masses don't have any of the
00:27:18
context that like, people originally making, they don't
00:27:21
want it. It's like it's really hard to
00:27:23
turn a product around 15 years into a company's existence.
00:27:26
Twitter is Or less the same thing that it's been like there
00:27:29
might be some Trends or you know cultural usages that change over
00:27:32
time but by and large it's the same thing.
00:27:35
Okay, can you guys explain something to me because this
00:27:38
debate over whether or not we should be allowed to edit like
00:27:41
the typos in our tweets. We can't for some reason, what
00:27:44
is the case against letting people edit out their horrific
00:27:47
typos because then you would say, you know, I love ice cream
00:27:51
and then you get 1 retweets and then you're just like I love
00:27:54
child Isis. Yeah right.
00:27:56
Yeah. And then people would be like
00:27:58
gotcha and then they would lose a job or something or times and
00:28:03
then somebody would edit it and all of a sudden you have like
00:28:06
some offensive image, you know, through and Annie Lon.
00:28:10
So Eliza super pro editing tweets.
00:28:14
I mean I guess I am too but for totally different reasons just
00:28:16
because like I'm a bad type or and my typewriter what they're
00:28:19
saying you could but then he loves proposal.
00:28:23
He said that oh well I guess it should clear like read Weeds and
00:28:28
it's like, what's the point? That's just deleting a tweet.
00:28:31
Like you can right now to write we lose all the engagement and
00:28:35
like, put it back up, it's just like, okay, you wanted a simple
00:28:38
motion. I, I just feel like that's the
00:28:41
whole thing people want is to be able to fix the typo without
00:28:44
losing all the like good engagement that, you know, it's
00:28:47
like, oh, I made a dumb type own a viral Tweet.
00:28:49
Now, I want both worlds, but it's just like, even Elan seems
00:28:53
to see the problem in editing tweets, even though it's become
00:28:56
like, A rallying Cry of his position which to me speaks to
00:29:01
the broader point that he is just not thought through this at
00:29:03
all and it's what's infuriating to sort of.
00:29:07
I don't know anybody who reporters why reporters go
00:29:09
ballistic about Elon is because it feels like Elon gives like
00:29:13
the dumbest like John, it's like a jock loss of some, you know,
00:29:16
it's like you have so many in class who thinks they
00:29:18
understand, like, you know, they don't believe in evolution but
00:29:21
they don't like know anything about it and you're like, you
00:29:24
haven't even thought through this.
00:29:26
But but here's why. He undermines this idea that a
00:29:30
lot of people have held onto for a long time that you have to
00:29:34
work pretty hard and prepare and study in order to be successful.
00:29:40
Right? And so I think when reporters
00:29:43
are going ballistic over him, what they're saying is you're
00:29:46
not the kind of person who's supposed to be able to do this,
00:29:48
right? So stop doing it.
00:29:49
Exactly. I remember another figure not so
00:29:53
long ago who ran for president, I think people work like we are.
00:29:57
Supposed to do that, because you've never read a book
00:30:00
Running. Yeah, that's right.
00:30:01
Yeah. Did you think it Katie don't
00:30:03
understand that? According to David Sachs, the
00:30:05
system is rigged against these people, right?
00:30:08
Yeah. It's very hard for these people
00:30:09
to do what they want to say. I don't know if the system is
00:30:12
rigged against them but I think normative Behavior did prevent a
00:30:15
lot of things from happening that is exactly.
00:30:18
And it's just that we now live in a world where for whatever
00:30:22
reason, I do not know normative Behavior.
00:30:25
People do not feel Bound by And people do not feel so bad when
00:30:29
Society turns on them for defying, it, they don't know
00:30:32
what Marc Andreessen. That's like, it's anti normative
00:30:35
Behavior. Yeah, it is sort of like, oh,
00:30:37
all these scolds you're not doing anything.
00:30:39
I mean that sort of an Express position is point.
00:30:42
I mean, it's in a very interesting distillation of
00:30:46
what's, what's going on? Let me defend Ilan for a second
00:30:50
here. Anyone have any better ideas?
00:30:53
Like I mean you know that I have always said if if somebody just
00:30:56
pulled the plug on Twitter, Tomorrow, it would not hurt
00:30:59
anything and I know they're going to be all these people who
00:31:02
are like, Katie that's not fair. There have been civil rights
00:31:06
activist and there have been, you know, marginalized groups
00:31:09
and there have been, you know, there's more disability
00:31:11
visibility and those things are all to some extent true, but
00:31:15
that does not mean that the mechanism that allowed those
00:31:18
voices to have more public are time.
00:31:21
Must always continue. Maybe we can now come up with a
00:31:24
new way or maybe now the mainstream media.
00:31:27
As more tuned for those voices, thanks to Twitter.
00:31:29
And it's now part of what reportedly served its purpose
00:31:32
and it served his purpose and it can go like the dodo or is it
00:31:37
like a panda bear and we keep it alive because we just think it's
00:31:39
so cute. But there's really no
00:31:41
evolutionary reason why I think this diplomatic presence for
00:31:43
the. I do think like I mean on an
00:31:45
earlier episode, I talked about like my ideological like
00:31:48
uncertainty a certain way and I do think there is a degree to,
00:31:51
which, like, the Elan thing is fun.
00:31:54
Like the people booing Elon are boring.
00:31:57
Twitter isn't that great right now?
00:31:59
Like this isn't Donald Trump. It's not like, oh, Donald Trump
00:32:02
being president means that people can't get across the
00:32:04
border. You know, you it doesn't mean
00:32:06
like actual terrible real world consequences for people like
00:32:10
there's a possibility that Elon runs Twitter in a way that I
00:32:13
guess like hurts our political world.
00:32:16
But for the most part it feels like sort of like would you
00:32:18
rather vote for chaos and fun and somebody who's willing to
00:32:22
like experiment or are you gonna or do you want to play Forum?
00:32:26
Where do you want to go? Because them and the system like
00:32:29
is like lawyers and shit. Like I do think like an
00:32:32
interesting theme to come out of this world is like part of the
00:32:36
way like the liberal power structure like gets these people
00:32:39
in line is that these companies go public and then they have to
00:32:42
follow like SEC rule, you know, they're always there.
00:32:44
All these rules constructed by sort of the liberal Elite
00:32:48
bureaucracy that then makes it so that they can do or say
00:32:52
whatever they want. Most of most of those rules are
00:32:54
like holdovers from like the post depression.
00:32:57
Sarah wasn't like some liberal plot.
00:33:00
It was like, how do we ensure that corporations can't lie to
00:33:05
investors and make money off of them?
00:33:07
And how do we ensure that people were made?
00:33:09
That there are many remain sounds sure, but people
00:33:12
companies get sued over everything.
00:33:14
I mean, but I'm just saying that those laws were not put in place
00:33:19
because of Democrats. It was literally a response to
00:33:23
the Great Depression and I support Financial regulation and
00:33:27
Yeah, thank you. Thank God.
00:33:30
It's like a huckster so. Right about now, I am
00:33:34
sympathetic to the idea that there is a regime that public
00:33:37
companies are basically forced into that.
00:33:40
Requires you, we expect like an adult CEO, right?
00:33:42
You can't be this like ridiculous.
00:33:44
Like, just Trump being CEO because you're basically trapped
00:33:49
in a regulatory regime and that's the conflict over the
00:33:52
tweets is Elon kind of a, like a like, is there is there some
00:33:56
sort of Volusia nari timeline on, which we put Ilan where
00:34:01
there was first. There was online trading and
00:34:04
then there was kind of like day trading and the manipulation of
00:34:10
the electronic infrastructure around markets and then there
00:34:13
was the GameStop stuff, right? Where people were able to work
00:34:17
in a concerted block to change prices absent.
00:34:20
Any regard for whether or not the company was doing well,
00:34:23
Market, fundamentals are no longer a thing and now Elon is
00:34:26
kind of Like the large investor version of that.
00:34:29
We had the small investor version of a large investor
00:34:31
relations. Yeah, I think I've seen people
00:34:34
definitely make the connection at this is just like a
00:34:36
super-sized version of the mean stock phenomenon.
00:34:39
I think that analysis kind of undercuts its actual business,
00:34:42
which is fine. Right?
00:34:44
You know it's not AMC Theatres which is like part of a
00:34:47
dwindling and fucked it and there is like a bull case for
00:34:50
Twitter. But here's the thing on the
00:34:51
bookcase for Twitter, it just relies on them kind of doing the
00:34:53
same thing that they've been doing right?
00:34:55
And the product will Bumble along In the way that it has for
00:34:58
the last couple of years, it's clearly not going to turn things
00:35:00
around because it was can turn things around.
00:35:01
It would have like a Visionary CEO laying out ideas that could
00:35:05
fundamentally change the product.
00:35:07
This is just sort of like, this is why?
00:35:08
Again, I'm rooting for Ilan. Because at least it's an
00:35:11
acknowledgement that if you care about this company and think it
00:35:14
should matter that at least try to do something to it at least,
00:35:17
like try to Institute a game plan even if it's a calf you
00:35:22
know, half-cocked you know, off the, you know, running by the
00:35:25
you know, whatever. Like there's at least, Something
00:35:27
some sort of energy and decision and desire to.
00:35:31
I think, maybe I'm giving him too much credit to try to do
00:35:35
something with with what is like a very interesting product.
00:35:38
Yeah, you have assigned, like a lot of really interesting
00:35:40
motives to to this myth. Like I'm like, wow, if that's
00:35:44
what he's thinking. I think that sounds great.
00:35:46
There was a lot of criticism on elon's, lack of knowledge of
00:35:49
free speech debates, I guess during the Ted Talk.
00:35:51
Yeah, I'm vehement on that sure, I'm sure he sounded like a
00:35:55
fucking moron during it because he doesn't not seem to think
00:35:58
about a lot of these things very hard, but all the smart people
00:36:00
that have been spending the last five years.
00:36:02
Discussing online speech, and moderation, if they come up with
00:36:05
any great Solutions, like are we in a position where things are
00:36:08
like, well, monitored and well measured.
00:36:10
I mean, like Facebook, spend a lot of money building up its,
00:36:13
you know, whatever advisory committees and you can argue
00:36:17
like politically they weren't empowered to do anything.
00:36:19
And you know, duck never was going to take him seriously but,
00:36:21
you know, for the companies that invested in it and they got all
00:36:24
the smart academics to talk about it and do things.
00:36:26
What? Exactly.
00:36:27
Is their proposal nothing? Really, it's clearly not working
00:36:29
out, it feels like Facebook hired, more people.
00:36:32
Some of it is just like a scaling up, the human moderators
00:36:37
with the size of your platform issue, which is companies have
00:36:40
been investing and you covered snap more than anyone.
00:36:43
They have a totally different philosophy and and Tick Tock is
00:36:47
a heavy moderation platform. So I don't know that.
00:36:49
I agree with you. We've seen that conversation
00:36:53
translate into companies with stricter, moderation.
00:36:56
And Are less problems. I don't know.
00:36:58
I can't speak The Tick Tock because I haven't reported on
00:37:01
it. I think people give snap a lot
00:37:02
of credit for it. Just has a different
00:37:04
architecture. It's just a different kind of
00:37:06
product. It's not set up for
00:37:08
disinformation, and like the whole, like, the product, whole
00:37:11
that, Twitter, and Facebook fills is not served by snap.
00:37:14
So you can't really say like, oh, why isn't face look more?
00:37:16
Like so what it? What it, what are they serve?
00:37:18
And why is it important to have one-to-one messaging?
00:37:21
Basically Facebook and Twitter. Serve that.
00:37:24
No, yeah, right. What do Facebook?
00:37:27
Her serve. And why is that important to
00:37:28
have all mine community online conversations?
00:37:31
Why is important? I'm not saying it is important,
00:37:33
but there's a desire for it. That there's clearly like a
00:37:36
human. The fact that these things have
00:37:37
persisted and in Facebook's case had become like an insanely
00:37:40
valuable company is because it Taps into some elements of human
00:37:44
nature that people want to communicate in this way.
00:37:47
And so if you were to shut these products down one day, something
00:37:50
would have to fill it up because for whatever reason we desire to
00:37:53
at least in the current technological infrastructure,
00:37:56
communicate in this way. Way?
00:37:57
So, I don't know. I just that particular one
00:38:00
annoys me because it's just not fair to say one company is doing
00:38:03
it right and other ones doing it you know not right when the
00:38:06
products are just different, they're fundamentally different.
00:38:09
It does seem like tectonic is starting to encroach on time.
00:38:12
That was spent on companies like Twitter or Instagram.
00:38:15
So does that mean that there's another way to serve that need
00:38:18
or is it just that you think these things are complimentary
00:38:21
well? But the, when you say take away
00:38:22
time, it's usually, you know, younger people, right?
00:38:26
And so They seem to be phasing out of those other products for
00:38:29
a long time anyway. Hmm.
00:38:31
So I don't think there's going to be, you know.
00:38:34
Yeah, sure. Maybe the entertainment value
00:38:36
that Tick-Tock offers is just fundamentally Superior to
00:38:40
Facebook, but for the way, the olds use Facebook and I guess
00:38:43
Twitter, I don't think Tick-Tock is really serving that.
00:38:46
Well, given that young people are phasing out of things like
00:38:48
Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and probably worried
00:38:52
from before Tick-Tock, does that mean then that if those things
00:38:55
went away, necessarily something like them.
00:38:57
Take their place, if people who are younger, just kind of, don't
00:39:00
need them or want them. It depends, I mean, we're
00:39:02
talking about like a decades-long timeline for that,
00:39:04
right? So, if we want to think in those
00:39:06
terms, sure. But everyone, you know, seems to
00:39:09
be thinking that like democracy is on the verge of collapsing
00:39:11
right now. If we got rid of Twitter, or if
00:39:14
we don't do better, moderation on Twitter, right?
00:39:16
We can't just have to serve a market view, like, if better
00:39:19
moderation doesn't happen in Twitter, is just terrible over
00:39:22
time, people just leave it, right?
00:39:23
And I don't know that democracy will fail because of it.
00:39:25
If Twitter became a ghost town, Like my space isn't Myspace,
00:39:29
doesn't Myspace? Hold on.
00:39:30
Let me say my space. So I go to I go to myspace.com
00:39:35
it's there. Hey Bikini Kill is doing a 2022
00:39:39
summer. Sure Tommy songs about right,
00:39:41
surprise released a new song. So my space exists of Twitter
00:39:44
became like some sort of weird thing.
00:39:47
I don't know that democracy would fail if everybody was just
00:39:50
like we hate this. We don't use anymore.
00:39:51
Oh, speaking of my there is a great relevant tweet on this.
00:39:54
I'm trying. If you pick a Eric about like
00:39:58
the parts of your brain that are occupied by tweets that you
00:40:01
don't understand the scale of Twitter that I've been on, well,
00:40:04
I was trying to draw attention, I had a good subscriber BOCES
00:40:08
week, I was trying to draw attention to that but then of
00:40:10
course, like the tweets of mine that were, you know, going viral
00:40:14
for me were, like, shitting on York Times or whatever, you
00:40:17
know, it's classic like, when did my space become only noun
00:40:21
students about like mainstream pop stars for a Time, Justin?
00:40:27
Like own Myspace. Can I read this week?
00:40:29
It's alright. Lesbian Mothman says, I was on
00:40:34
Tumblr when Yahoo had to sell it for three million after buying
00:40:38
it for 1.1 billion. We were all a little bit
00:40:41
responsible for losing Yahoo a billion dollars and with that
00:40:45
type of collective effort, I believe we here on Twitter can
00:40:48
lose Elon Musk even more. It's true.
00:40:54
It's so true. We all have a part To play.
00:40:57
Do you want to be the bearer of toxicity?
00:41:00
Or do you want to be one of the people who just abandons the
00:41:02
platform all together? I think I know which role I will
00:41:05
play well. So so this is what I wish that
00:41:08
the board's statement had been. Instead of adopting the poison
00:41:10
pill measure, you know, to block Ilana they should have said
00:41:13
look, we have a plan here. And that plan is to take this
00:41:15
company out with a whimper slowly richer even profitable
00:41:20
though, like I don't like for that.
00:41:21
You need to have at least be producing like throwing off
00:41:24
cash. That people write slowly.
00:41:26
We like Content. Moderation policy is that
00:41:28
eventually. We will have no content to
00:41:30
moderate on here. And so if this place just like,
00:41:32
Flames out over the course of like 10 15 years, we're all
00:41:35
going to be the better for it and then you can save your
00:41:37
money. You're not going to want it when
00:41:38
it's shitty. So let's just talk.
00:41:40
I think that's actually going to happen.
00:41:41
It's just a matter of whether or not it happens under if whether
00:41:44
it goes like the Elan route or the non è La en route.
00:41:46
And and I just think that because I can't think of a
00:41:50
public company that just said what we do now is irrelevant
00:41:54
we're simply going to shut down. I don't think any of them have
00:41:56
ever done. Done that, but you've seen
00:41:58
automakers. Go away.
00:42:00
You've seen, you know, tech companies like up like away all
00:42:03
the time. Like, remember the company
00:42:05
Compaq? I think that was a big computer
00:42:08
maker so they do go away. But it's generally not because
00:42:11
the management team puts out, a press release saying this is not
00:42:16
really what worth doing it anymore.
00:42:18
So they always have to go out with a whimper.
00:42:20
It's just like, do you want it to be an Elon style death of the
00:42:23
company, which actually might be faster, frankly.
00:42:27
Like they just limp along like this and people they're slow
00:42:30
attrition over the next decade because people are like this is
00:42:33
too weird. Yeah.
00:42:35
Well I mean I feel like this then gets to the web three
00:42:37
conversation, right? Like it's clear that Twitter
00:42:38
doesn't have a great web 3 strategy and since everything is
00:42:42
clearly going in that direction they're going to be obsolete.
00:42:45
Yeah, as far as that happens, if that works out Twitter 2021, I
00:42:49
just brought the financials and we have a literate audience.
00:42:52
So the revenue was just like a dime quarter.
00:42:57
Five billion. No, it's five billion, total
00:42:59
revenue and net loss of 221 million and it lost a billion
00:43:06
and change in 2020. So, yeah, it's a money-losing.
00:43:09
I mean, if you think about how much coffee the interns are
00:43:12
drinking. It is.
00:43:13
Does any other takeaways any of that offset the odds, right,
00:43:19
that's a homeless people. That's a revenue stream as well.
00:43:22
Yeah, he proposed he did say, yeah.
00:43:24
Let's put homeless people and Twitter's I got, you know, I
00:43:27
don't disagree with that. That is as far as he thought
00:43:29
about it, by the way. Yeah, again, yeah.
00:43:32
If this doesn't happen, which is more likely than not in my
00:43:36
opinion. Are we idiots for just like
00:43:39
getting suckered again? Like no, we're just like the
00:43:41
news conversation. I mean, given that he's sort of
00:43:44
like the boy who cried wolf. Should we have?
00:43:47
Just like not paid attention to this until the board said, okay,
00:43:51
we're selling to Ilan or I do, I know that's impossible.
00:43:53
There's no central point of. Yeah, I don't know what that
00:43:56
reality looks like. So it's hard to answer because
00:43:58
like we pay attention to all sorts of merger talks, right?
00:44:01
I mean like just the world was Richard, I mean right well there
00:44:05
is we I've also been critical of the financial press for loves to
00:44:11
report merger talks. When the reporter themselves,
00:44:13
clearly knows that the acquisition is less likely, you
00:44:17
know, is less than 50%. You know, it's like oh they
00:44:20
talked, but does that mean that they're going to get acquired if
00:44:23
you think? No, I person is reporter would
00:44:26
are against Morning. But I know plenty of reporters
00:44:28
are like, well, it's true. There are talks so we should get
00:44:32
ask you quickly true. Oh yeah.
00:44:35
Oh yeah, that's my least favorite.
00:44:37
Yeah. Well, I'm can't go any.
00:44:39
I can't go down that road anymore.
00:44:42
There's one thing that we haven't really examined in terms
00:44:44
of elon's quest. And that is, what is Plan B?
00:44:47
Right? Because he said, oh, if this
00:44:48
doesn't work, he has a plan B. And I think I know what plan B
00:44:51
is. And I think it actually will
00:44:52
solve a lot of the issues that we've kind of been stumbling
00:44:55
over this episode. I think he should try.
00:44:57
To acquire Pinterest. Oh my God, I forgot Pinterest to
00:45:00
like sister. Yeah, look Elon.
00:45:01
If you listen since you're, I know your kind of been.
00:45:03
So all of the content that's out there.
00:45:05
We're going to Tweet out this episode so you'll read this.
00:45:07
If you're looking to buy a bumbling tech company, that is
00:45:09
not managed to have any real product Innovation over the last
00:45:12
five or so years, clearly Pinterest is out there
00:45:15
Pinterest, right? As some of the woke is employees
00:45:17
around. So if you'll on really wants to
00:45:19
see a liar, liberal tears. Yeah, it is Astro, is that, is
00:45:23
that part of what he wants to do is see liberal tears flow, he
00:45:26
wouldn't hurt Birds. But I wouldn't be his backseat
00:45:28
was like to tweet to that, I even left.
00:45:31
His most Ardent followers would like to see that.
00:45:34
Okay, fine. Yeah, okay.
00:45:37
That place could be like a Bastion of like, cultural
00:45:39
insensitivity under you. Like, they already seem to have
00:45:42
problems there at Pinterest. I think it could probably made a
00:45:44
lot worse under your leadership, like, have a board was just
00:45:47
dedicated to like cells. Yeah, yeah.
00:45:51
My old school, and social stream, or yeah.
00:45:54
First of all, they have a male user problem at Pinterest, so
00:45:56
long Could a drawn could solve that overnight?
00:45:59
Yeah, exactly. Just get your fault.
00:46:01
Your Twitter follower Bros on the Pinterest.
00:46:03
That would probably double the user base.
00:46:05
And I think there's a lot. You know, you wouldn't have the
00:46:07
government on your back, they wouldn't care.
00:46:09
If you're a Pinterest, isn't Pinterest private, I forgot to
00:46:12
select notes. Public their public.
00:46:14
Wow, they did that. And that's great for them.
00:46:17
I think. Mmm, Yeah, but they've not yet
00:46:19
been acquired by Microsoft. Microsoft, apparently passed on
00:46:23
them. Oh, I was joking, but that's
00:46:25
hilarious. Oh no, that was a real.
00:46:27
K. Yeah, so they've been rejected
00:46:32
by like you know, the richest least attractive person at the
00:46:35
dance, just kind of stumbling around.
00:46:38
I think Elon is there, I'd probably be easier to line up
00:46:41
that Finance. There's a funny and you'll see
00:46:43
how this relates. There was a funny part in the
00:46:45
Ted Talk interview with Elon Musk where they weren't talking
00:46:48
about this to you and the guy was a strange interview, but the
00:46:52
guy was like, you know, Ilan like what what do you regret
00:46:55
most about like, Her career. Like what could you change any
00:46:59
lines? Basically, like the, we didn't
00:47:01
that I that me and JD didn't found Tesla ourselves because
00:47:06
Elon is basically, so full of regret that he has to share
00:47:10
credit for Tesla with other people, you know, you just wants
00:47:14
to erase like their creation. And the problem with acquiring
00:47:17
Twitter is no one's going to forget, like, Jack Dorsey or,
00:47:22
you know, I mean, like, what if he acquires Pinterest, you know,
00:47:24
he might be able to like, tell me right here.
00:47:27
You can erase those people be like, oh wasn't it wasn't the
00:47:29
same company, wasn't Ben Silverman?
00:47:31
No, I mean that's I doubt been would put up much of a fight.
00:47:34
I have this point about that. So, yeah.
00:47:36
I think it's, I think there's so much more opportunity there.
00:47:39
There's so much less resistance and I think you'd have more fun
00:47:42
Tom to your point. The market cap is only fourteen
00:47:45
point six billion dollars brightest 34.
00:47:48
So easier to line up that financing or at least pretend
00:47:51
that you've lined up that financing.
00:47:53
And by the way, it's an image based platform very mean
00:47:55
friendly. I know you, Gamzee Lon.
00:47:58
Oh yeah, and I'm sure I want to know what pepper the frog is
00:48:00
doing for his wedding. Mmm, exactly.
00:48:03
Yeah, yeah. Pepe is like Apartment Therapy
00:48:05
redesign. Mmm.
00:48:07
Yeah, I think we've solved it. Frankly.
00:48:10
I like this. A lot more elegant than the
00:48:12
Twitter thing does. Anyway, this is actually going
00:48:14
to happen interest. I'm Pepe the Frog getting
00:48:16
married. No, the Twitter acquisition or
00:48:18
what was spinning forward? For one minute?
00:48:21
We could do this in five minutes.
00:48:22
I think Ilan. This will fizzle out by the end
00:48:25
of this coming week. I think it will probably head
00:48:28
towards some sort of an auction phase.
00:48:29
And I would bet that by the end of the year, Twitter is probably
00:48:33
is probably owned by the private Equity or some shit.
00:48:35
I think they're going to have to get towards some sort of an
00:48:37
object. Why Thomas?
00:48:38
Bravo is looking at it? I saw a story Thoma Bravo, it's
00:48:42
embarrassing for my job. You don't want to take that?
00:48:44
Yeah. All the Bravo's.
00:48:46
Yeah. Right mr.
00:48:48
And mrs. Bravo or interesting right now.
00:48:52
Yeah, I think they're, I mean, I do think it does lay bare.
00:48:54
The fact that this is kind of strategically moribund company
00:48:59
that there has. There's no, there's no one
00:49:00
really at the helm. Clearly at this point, Ilan will
00:49:03
either lose interest or just realize, it'll be a lot more
00:49:05
work. That's kind of the same thing.
00:49:07
And I think it's going to head towards some sort of an auction
00:49:10
phase and maybe it'll get acquired by Microsoft or
00:49:13
something like that. Disney.
00:49:14
Maybe we'll what Katie did you you think it overcomes an
00:49:17
teacher? Like, do you think this gives
00:49:18
Twitter an excuse to be able to be acquired by a company that
00:49:21
otherwise would face antitrust? Screw no, no absolutely no.
00:49:26
I mean, Feels so unfair it's like oh yeah like Google can
00:49:31
acquire it still even though it's like there's I don't know
00:49:34
but why would Google want it? I mean that's that's the other
00:49:36
thing like Twitter is a platform that is losing users that is not
00:49:44
really that interesting. Unless you're willing to
00:49:45
dedicate huge swaths of your brain, to be able to understand
00:49:48
the weird construction of the conversation.
00:49:51
It's the kind of place you go when you want to kind of like
00:49:53
hate somebody but you just need someone to hate and you don't
00:49:56
have someone from Twitter tells you who to hate like I'm just
00:49:59
not really sure why like Disney would want to bring that on as
00:50:01
part of its brand, if you want your brain to feel like it's
00:50:04
like a slot machine, we like after years of it dizzy, you
00:50:07
know, that I go there, I guess I'm gonna predict the Elan does
00:50:12
acquire the company only because I can't imagine it going to a
00:50:17
private Equity Firm because there's no exit from it.
00:50:19
And it does not turn enough like steady cash flow to leverage off
00:50:22
of it and it has a PE ratio of almost 50.
00:50:26
So I just A kind of like why would I go to private Equity,
00:50:29
Firm do that, maybe I'm totally wrong.
00:50:31
Maybe Silver Lake will just take care of the situation because,
00:50:34
you know, they feel like they have a job, it would be with
00:50:36
with you. Yeah, I mean so like I thinki
00:50:38
Lon oh I didn't know that silver like was Pro Ilan, that's the
00:50:42
reporting. I don't I'm a little shy.
00:50:44
I just I'm just going to say Ilan takes over the company and
00:50:49
hastens the demise of Twitter as both employees and like normal
00:50:54
user must flee. So that people who are the power
00:50:58
users who really want to like either on one side of the
00:51:01
equation. You have people who want to talk
00:51:03
about how much they hate liberalism, that's great.
00:51:06
They can they can run roughshod over the platform.
00:51:09
Trump can come back, cool. Then they're going to be the
00:51:11
people who are like just constantly trying to cancel
00:51:14
other human beings. Like, who can we get fired?
00:51:17
Welcome to come on world view fully to the test.
00:51:22
And then, you know, it's three years, when Twitter has 10
00:51:25
million of them, Was horrifying user, isn't that?
00:51:28
It's all they have left a flatworm.
00:51:30
That's, that's, that's perfect, that's fine.
00:51:32
That's my prediction. Grimes is a capitalist.
00:51:36
Now, by the way, you see them weli, I read her Vanity Fair
00:51:40
interview. She didn't say anything about
00:51:42
that. She she had the secret baby.
00:51:45
Yeah. All right.
00:51:46
All right. This is you guys all on.
00:51:48
Yes, you guys. All in truth, social?
00:51:50
Yeah, actually, I'm just gonna text you guys.
00:51:52
Like we always do. That's true signal.
00:51:56
It is. I was Ever happy with my Twitter
00:51:57
username. So if I can get in on the next
00:52:00
you know newer platform and get at dote on which I've always
00:52:03
wanted. I would be I'll take whatever
00:52:05
flow. Yeah, you gotta move fast.
00:52:07
When Ilan buys Twitter, you can buy from Elan at dote on.
00:52:11
You see outbid the other should be a market for everything.
00:52:14
Exactly. I can't get newcomer for some
00:52:16
reason. Yeah, I'm saying just try to
00:52:19
angle towards the new platform and get the name that you want
00:52:21
and then that'll be the ultimate irony, right?
00:52:23
It just like, you know, finally, Trump gets you gets re-elected
00:52:26
in 2024. And Twitter is just a shell of
00:52:28
itself that he's back on the platform.
00:52:30
And it's just like the same people that run truth social.
00:52:33
Well, I'm excited for the big Twitter.
00:52:35
True social murder. That's true.
00:52:37
All right, we'll see you guys there.
00:52:40
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.
00:52:52
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Goodbye.