We discuss Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong's tweets about how the tech press' harsh coverage of CEOs is driving away talent and whether the increasingly critical stories about tech companies is the natural maturity of the industry. We also dive into last year's controversies when national politics spilled into company Slack rooms and whether banning it actually helped improve morale (as Armstrong also claimed). Finally, as top Facebook officials make the media rounds after the whistleblower's testimony in Congress, we disagree on whether getting an interview with a high ranking exec is all that valuable to a beat reporter.
Get full access to Newcomer at www.newcomer.co/subscribe
00:00:05
Welcome. Hey it's Eric newcomer with dead
00:00:16
cat. I'm here with Tom and Katie.
00:00:19
We are going to talk about Brian Armstrong, the coinbase CEO.
00:00:25
He loves to communicate in tweet store but He wrote one.
00:00:31
I think, you know, a year ago, basically talking about politics
00:00:36
and companies sort of right after the black lives matter
00:00:39
protest, trying to Stamp Out, you know, employee Revolution
00:00:43
inside of coinbase. We're going to talk about that
00:00:46
one. Which I think he recently took a
00:00:49
Victory lap on sort of saying that he looks prescient.
00:00:54
And then there's another one from October where he complains
00:00:59
about see Is getting criticized. Tom, do you have it up?
00:01:02
You have a better reading voice and I do or I can read them if
00:01:06
semi some of the link I can do my best priority and then we'll
00:01:10
back our way into the politics ones.
00:01:12
This is from October 5th at Brian underscore Armstrong won.
00:01:17
I do worry that as companies get to be more successful.
00:01:20
The number of attacks from the Press politicians and trolls on
00:01:24
CEOs and rounds of congressional testimony.
00:01:27
Make the job not fun and they leave.
00:01:30
And they leave from burnout Gates page, Bezos dot dot dot.
00:01:35
To America, could be losing some of its best talent from this
00:01:38
America and it has some parallels to what has happened
00:01:42
to successful CEOs in China. You.
00:01:44
Oh my God. Okay, I'll keep going through
00:01:45
this. You didn't.
00:01:47
I didn't read the second one, how could you?
00:01:49
I'm sorry. How could you compare?
00:01:51
What is happening to the CI Master?
00:01:52
Is he talking about like, Jack Ma and, you know?
00:01:55
Yes, yes, he is to set the content.
00:01:57
Like, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm getting ahead of
00:01:59
myself. You don't get moved to how he's
00:02:03
lays it out. You don't get moved to house
00:02:04
arrest in the u.s. No you don't you do not but it
00:02:08
is. I'm not gonna laugh but it is
00:02:11
our own version of it being something that gets me
00:02:13
successful. Yeah, it's American house arrest
00:02:17
is getting a tweet. Putting something that gets to
00:02:20
successful in its place 3 parentheses, which doesn't seem
00:02:23
very American. By the way, for real life course
00:02:27
I'm going to finish this. I swear of course.
00:02:30
Company deserves to have scrutiny and should take an
00:02:32
honest look at what it's doing well, and not well, but the
00:02:35
market solves, a lot of this for us, people vote with their
00:02:38
wallet, choosing what to buy. And the best way to keep flawed
00:02:41
companies in check is to have new startups, come disrupt them.
00:02:44
So how do you build a company today?
00:02:45
That is resistant to demoralizing attacks from
00:02:47
trolls, the more successful it becomes, I'm not sure.
00:02:51
But here here are a few ideas. First, hire employees, and build
00:02:55
a board of independent thinkers who are insulated from bias,
00:02:58
third-party script in their minds and knock you Late your
00:03:01
supply chain. Second, give customers not just
00:03:04
employees, a sense of ownership crypto is pioneered this?
00:03:08
I think I can stop. Yeah, right.
00:03:09
I mean, we don't, we don't know three simply the enemy
00:03:11
descriptions. Yeah.
00:03:13
Yeah. I mean Facebook would be facing
00:03:15
a lot. Less hate if all their unique
00:03:17
users owned a piece of the network, if people felt like
00:03:20
everyone was growing together, there would be a greater sense
00:03:23
of unity. I just think the last visit,
00:03:25
this is actually not an oncoming why everybody's attacking
00:03:27
Facebook. So I mean Facebook is Clearly a
00:03:31
big subtext of this. I mean, we as the users we need
00:03:36
to do on a piece of the network and we can choose to not use it
00:03:38
anymore. Like so many people have what?
00:03:42
I mean, I guess I just feel like welcome to being the CEO of.
00:03:46
No, no, Jay P Morgan or Walmart or a Starbucks or any other
00:03:49
company that's based real criticism by politicians
00:03:53
reporters and consumers. I'm not really sure what his
00:03:57
point is and it's not like the people, he chose base.
00:04:00
Listen Paige had these like have these really tiny short-lived
00:04:04
careers of their companies, because right, if they couldn't
00:04:07
and besos owns the Washington Post, so it he's he's tweeted
00:04:12
before that where said before, you know, CEOs need to have a
00:04:15
tough skin. I mean, yeah, it does.
00:04:18
If this seems like a very San Francisco complaint, you know,
00:04:23
just like, oh, criticism sucks or at least people that still
00:04:26
live in San Francisco. I complain.
00:04:28
I just think I'm playing it. Was somebody who hasn't really
00:04:30
He looked at any other industry before any other large impactful
00:04:34
industry, I mean it's almost too easy to attack the logic behind
00:04:39
the first one in that thread about you know, the the not
00:04:43
making it fun anymore. So I almost don't want to spend
00:04:47
any time on it because it's, you know, we're now like a week
00:04:49
almost from that tweet and everyone is just destroyed it.
00:04:52
But the idea of, you know, there being some sort of Market
00:04:55
solution that is opposed to cancel culture was his effective
00:04:59
what he's talking about. Is pretty hysterical because
00:05:01
that's the same thing. I mean the point of cancelled
00:05:03
culture as a concern. No one's forcing it like it's
00:05:06
coming. It's a Grassroots movement.
00:05:09
So if your point is like people can vote with their wallets as a
00:05:12
way to correct, the mistakes that companies or people are
00:05:16
making dude, that's canceled culture.
00:05:19
I don't know how else to describe it is.
00:05:20
You're actually out of a Kind by social media, the very industry
00:05:24
and very, you know, if he's defending Facebook, I know that
00:05:27
Facebook that allows cancel culture to List there would be
00:05:30
no cancel culture if there weren't social media.
00:05:33
Yeah, he wants to make it about the Press clearly and he says
00:05:36
press politicians and trolls trolls.
00:05:39
Trolls is a big area, stroll scape word because I feel like
00:05:43
really it's the public, you know that to some degree, I think the
00:05:46
Press is more Pro. These companies then at least
00:05:51
the average Twitter user, which is I think the world he's
00:05:54
communicating he's with Yeah, I mean again this this is like
00:05:59
just drawing everything back to Twitter.
00:06:01
I think even journalists will be more critical about companies on
00:06:05
Twitter. It when you actually look at
00:06:06
their work tends to be fairly even-handed if not pro company,
00:06:10
a lot of the time. So there's a lot of
00:06:12
extrapolation made unlike what, you know, the public is and
00:06:16
what, you know sentiment is based on their unhappiness on
00:06:19
Twitter, which, you know, dude, just get off Twitter.
00:06:21
It's, it'll say, it sounds like if that's a huge part of your
00:06:24
problem, you can solve that one. Pretty easy.
00:06:26
It is. It seems like his Twitter
00:06:28
specific problem. Like the New York Times is not
00:06:30
writing about coinbase that much like they did a big
00:06:33
investigation into it, but what's keeping it in the
00:06:37
headlines or what's keeping him? Brian Armstrong's mind.
00:06:40
Presumably is just people at tweeting.
00:06:43
I'm right. I saw that.
00:06:45
Brian chesky is going to be interviewed on axios this
00:06:49
evening. We're recording this on a Sunday
00:06:52
in which the snippet that I saw said, you know, they're like
00:06:55
what are the biggest threats? Facing US tech companies.
00:06:58
This these days and his response was something like the fact that
00:07:00
the public hates it right now. And I've also seen, you know,
00:07:04
it's an ex Facebook executive out there talking about how in
00:07:07
San Francisco, you know, the public or politicians or
00:07:10
whatever it is, is doing their best to destroy the network
00:07:13
effects of the city because they hate these companies so much.
00:07:16
And to me, it's just hard to look at any of these complaints
00:07:21
and not see a, I'm sorry, use the word, but like a wine Enos
00:07:25
on the fact that they're just not.
00:07:26
Universally agile, aided by the public that there isn't like a
00:07:30
complete sense of agreement with everything they stand for and
00:07:33
everything they're literally just being treated like every
00:07:35
other industry. Yeah.
00:07:37
And people like to like tech companies, right?
00:07:39
I mean, just I mean, the data is just like a little more people
00:07:43
like thanks Amazon's one of the most trusted organizations in
00:07:47
the world. I was just remarking to my
00:07:50
girlfriend, you know, we were traveling internationally and
00:07:52
you're dealing with like, terrible, passport
00:07:54
infrastructure and governments and you're like, Oh this the
00:07:57
government doesn't work that well, I mean, even as like a
00:07:59
super cynical Tech reporter, this is gonna get me booed, I
00:08:04
think, but if I had to trust any organization to move me around
00:08:07
the world, I think it would be Amazon.
00:08:09
You know, like that? That is my genuine.
00:08:11
Sincere you a box here but we especially the packaging is
00:08:15
quite waste. There are few, not
00:08:22
understanding, why, or how she's like Amazon.
00:08:26
Like, who do you really trust? You, they need to, like, do some
00:08:30
sort of logistical feat. Yeah, and still, you know, I
00:08:35
think we should spend most of our time as press scrutinizing
00:08:38
Amazon, because that's sort of the basis sumption.
00:08:41
That Amazon's huge is what we all rely on it.
00:08:44
It's it's a big part of our society kudos to you.
00:08:48
You know. I do we really need to say that
00:08:49
all the time like that Simplicity.
00:08:51
Well reason they get criticism is because they're so big.
00:08:54
We think because they have power influence, Fluent right?
00:08:57
Do they need a pat on the back to?
00:08:58
It's like you got it. Like, you get the money, you
00:09:00
know? You never say.
00:09:02
Thank you. That's what the money is for.
00:09:04
Yeah. But with also, the most
00:09:05
concerning parts of Amazon, or the part that gets criticized,
00:09:08
the most, by the press or whatever, by critics are things
00:09:11
that usually happen behind the scenes, right?
00:09:13
That their actions taking place in their warehouses or, you
00:09:18
know, maybe the internal mechanisms of their lobbying
00:09:20
efforts or, you know, hq2 and things like that.
00:09:24
I mean, the reason Facebook probably is the most hated of
00:09:26
all of these. Companies right now is because
00:09:27
it's all laid out there in for public view like we as the
00:09:30
public or participating in it. But also, you know, the
00:09:33
unhappiness that we see politically socially right now.
00:09:37
And then the part of it that we have attributed to Facebook is
00:09:40
just so available. It's in this kind of like public
00:09:44
view that we can find our anger in it placed.
00:09:47
Very viscerally. Yeah, we were part of it.
00:09:49
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:50
Where is like, you know, Amazon is probably the least of all of
00:09:54
them. Right there are these cameras on
00:09:55
just faces the same? Criticism that Starbucks or
00:09:58
Walmart faces, Amazon faces, the criticism of any large employer
00:10:02
that employs you know a lot of people with varying degrees of
00:10:06
benefits, you know. So it's no it's really no
00:10:11
different than the way that Walmart was criticized a couple
00:10:14
of decades ago. Right.
00:10:15
Let's start by right criticized. Well, Marty Trio for its for how
00:10:19
its scheduled part-time employees.
00:10:20
Basically destroying their lives in order to maximize, like a
00:10:24
scintilla of profit for Starbucks, like there was The
00:10:27
good that came out of that reporting, is that Starbucks
00:10:31
decided that it was worth it, for whatever reason.
00:10:34
I'm not going to get in their heads but it was worth it to
00:10:36
change that system and ultimately it was a benefit to
00:10:38
employees. I think the Amazon is actually
00:10:40
criticized just like any other large corporate employer.
00:10:44
Facebook is different. Facebook is very different.
00:10:47
Yeah because you know better. Well yeah, I think that's a
00:10:50
great distillation of it that Part of the issue with Facebook
00:10:54
and why why it can feel like everybody has an opinion.
00:10:57
Because so much of what they're doing wrong is self-evident.
00:10:59
Like obviously there's a lot of good reporting on the internal
00:11:02
workings and we learned some of that and that's all important
00:11:05
and I don't want to under play that but it does feel like a lot
00:11:09
of the problems with Facebook you can just consume it because
00:11:13
that Saucy well the problems with face, right?
00:11:15
Right. Yeah, I do wish like in the in
00:11:20
the media critiques. Like this is talking about the
00:11:24
Press first, the the Brian Armstrong thing they were
00:11:28
pivoting around here II do? I wish we would just sort of
00:11:31
like distinguish between like press reporters Gathering new
00:11:36
information, like the stories, you're outlining on Amazon,
00:11:39
where it's like stuff. We don't see where there
00:11:40
actually were people are doing reporting but so much of this
00:11:44
stuff they hate in the Press is just like yeah, how they
00:11:47
manifest. At how the reporters behave on
00:11:49
Twitter, op-ed columns, like I feel like we almost
00:11:53
strategically as the media should get want to get to a
00:11:56
point where we collapse, op-ed columns into just like that's
00:12:01
just a person, you know, it's just like those should just be
00:12:03
treated as people and not distinguished as press because
00:12:07
like they're just mad. They'll like the public members
00:12:10
of the public disagree. With what with what they're
00:12:13
doing, you know, it's not real but largely yeah, yeah, no.
00:12:18
And this all just seems to be boomeranging from the collapse
00:12:23
of the mythology that a lot of tech Executives and Venture
00:12:27
capitalists and people in the industry created over the last
00:12:30
decade which is that we're going to do big industry, but we're
00:12:33
going to do it different. We're going to find a way to
00:12:35
inspire people. Not just to make a lot of money
00:12:38
by building huge businesses that take over smaller businesses and
00:12:41
all aspects of Our Lives. Lives.
00:12:42
We're going to do it with the mission and we're going to do it
00:12:45
in a way that is inspiring. The people that not only work at
00:12:48
the companies but the people that use it and when it comes
00:12:51
down to it, we're now like you know a decade two decades into
00:12:54
that movement. We've seen that everything just
00:12:56
kind of falls back into place of what you know the trajectory of
00:12:59
big business and you may think you've done it differently and
00:13:02
think you've built a completely new infrastructure like like
00:13:08
social infrastructure around it, but it's it just ends up being
00:13:10
the same thing and you're just going through You know, like
00:13:13
Haiti can probably talk more to this than any of us about like
00:13:16
what kind of happened with the banking industry in 2008.
00:13:19
And obviously it hasn't destroyed, you know, the economy
00:13:22
in the way that that did. But people just lost faith in
00:13:26
you know, the positive aspects of this business and sort of see
00:13:28
it as a an industry. That enriches a lot of people
00:13:31
and that's because it is so embedded in our lives, we can't
00:13:34
write, we can't walk away from JP Morgan or Citibank.
00:13:40
We have to use them. And similarly, You can argue
00:13:43
that social media has also been embedded in our lives.
00:13:45
Like, we don't have to be on Twitter, but again, I've said
00:13:48
this a million times. If you live in a rural part of
00:13:50
the country, almost all of your services are on Facebook.
00:13:53
So your city, Hall's website is a Facebook page.
00:13:57
Your kids Elementary School website is a Facebook page.
00:14:00
If you want to know what's going on at your church, it's a
00:14:02
Facebook page. So there is a way in which it's
00:14:04
really hard to walk away from a service like Facebook to.
00:14:08
So it's more like how do we change the company because we're
00:14:11
in many ways stuck. Stop with the company.
00:14:13
We aren't the three of us. We can walk away from Facebook
00:14:16
and Instagram but I just wonder where addicts, right?
00:14:20
That's it. And when we when we all quit her
00:14:23
job but it's funny even you don't
00:14:36
have to be on Twitter for it to affect your lives, right?
00:14:39
I mean in our now, trash cans Code, that was recording on
00:14:43
Friday. You know, I always bring up my
00:14:46
mom as like the perfect example of, like my mrs.
00:14:49
Duck tongue. Yeah, as like the American who
00:14:51
is incredibly influenced by the news that she consumes large you
00:14:55
through CNN and I don't know, the chronicle and whatever else
00:14:58
she is. Never been on Twitter.
00:14:59
I think she briefly joined it during the 2016 election because
00:15:03
there was so much talk of it. She's like, what's this about?
00:15:06
And she main account, she got on and she's like, oh no, this is
00:15:09
impossible to use in. This is scary but the opinion.
00:15:12
That get discussed on Twitter, obviously influence.
00:15:16
A lot of the mainstream news and it's almost like Twitter is the
00:15:19
AWS of opinion making like you don't Nest, you don't know that
00:15:22
it's there but it exists as this fundamental infrastructure layer
00:15:26
to the way, the broader World works that opinions are being
00:15:30
workshopped on it all the time to find most basically the most
00:15:34
outrageous opinions, the stickiest ones.
00:15:36
And then you have the ones that then breakthrough and land on
00:15:41
Fox or on you know, MSNBC or whatever, right?
00:15:44
It's like Don Lemon reads Twitter or his producers reach
00:15:47
Twitter and then they help him. Formulate, the talking points
00:15:50
that are going to eat a really stimulate the particular
00:15:53
audience that still watches CNN and and yeah, I think like again
00:15:57
it gets back to the idea that people are unhappy in a lot of
00:16:00
ways right now. And Tech is behind so much of it
00:16:04
just because of the tools and systems that they built, and
00:16:07
these CEOs are going to have to just reckon with that.
00:16:10
Like you can't just blame the press and say Were, you know,
00:16:13
independently writing mean things about them.
00:16:17
And if we just stopped doing it, everyone would feel better.
00:16:19
Well, I think there is actually a good bridge between these
00:16:23
tweet storms in what you guys have been saying.
00:16:26
Because I mean we basically have the tech companies, particularly
00:16:29
Google and Facebook setting themselves up as he's like
00:16:32
world-changing companies and there's nothing that the Press
00:16:36
loves more than when you set high standards for yourself over
00:16:39
the breast and the public, you know, because you'll be measured
00:16:41
against the standards. You Publicly articulate, so then
00:16:44
you're not, you know, it's a backhoe company.
00:16:45
Your this world-changing company you get held by heart high
00:16:48
standards. And then we have Armstrong
00:16:51
coming in and saying, actually, we're a company with a specific
00:16:55
Mission. We shouldn't have politics that
00:16:57
our company and so we're going to we're going to stick to the
00:17:00
mission. We're not everything and
00:17:02
anything. And so then you get this sort of
00:17:05
tweet storm that is definitely maligned by the Press.
00:17:10
I'm sure. I mean, I was super - about I
00:17:12
still have some issues with it that we can expand on, but then,
00:17:16
in a sort of Victory lap, September 30th.
00:17:21
You know, he says, what was amazing was the contrast between
00:17:23
the news, following my post and the reaction from employees.
00:17:27
And people who spoke to me in private while the media reports
00:17:30
were mostly negative and it even spawned some retaliatory and
00:17:34
intellectually dishonest hit pieces, the reaction both from
00:17:36
employees and people I spoke to in private, was overwhelmingly
00:17:40
positive. In fact.
00:17:42
Good. This is, of course, every single
00:17:51
employee, who bothered to say, something to you said something
00:17:54
positive. Yeah, it's amazing how people
00:17:55
during their performance reviews were so complimentary about
00:17:58
these lipids I put in place and I just think like, dude, if
00:18:01
everyone is so complimentary about your policies behind the
00:18:04
scenes, then why do you need the feel the need to in public
00:18:07
defend them, just ignore it, clearly doesn't matter, it's not
00:18:09
reflective of reality. So the fact that he Is taking
00:18:13
this quote-unquote Victory lap. And and I would just like to see
00:18:16
the data behind the positive, because there are ways to
00:18:19
measure these sort of things, right?
00:18:20
Attrition rates to, those go down after you implemented.
00:18:23
These policies, to employee morale, surveys, which I know
00:18:26
we're not the perfect measure, but at least it's something.
00:18:29
Like, if you had pointed to those things I write, I mean, he
00:18:31
says we meeting grown our headcount about 110 percent.
00:18:34
While our diversity numbers have remained the same or even
00:18:37
improved on some metrics, I mean, that's super thin.
00:18:40
Well, that's actually kind of shitty, like, if you It doubled
00:18:43
your employee size and only barely budged on right person.
00:18:45
And that's especially when people are to say that's a big
00:18:48
victory. I just, you know, I I don't
00:18:53
disagree with the, I don't disagree with the idea that it's
00:18:56
good to focus more on were than on.
00:18:59
You know what people are angry about on Twitter, vis-à-vis
00:19:02
politics. I don't think that's a bad
00:19:05
message to an employee base, which is let's spend our
00:19:08
husband, our work hours, working on work, but Why do you why do
00:19:13
you think the Press with? So - at the time and now we're
00:19:16
all just unhappy. I mean it was a say with such a,
00:19:20
you know, tumultuous time I was going to say, it was an
00:19:22
extraordinary time. It wasn't, it wasn't if if we
00:19:26
could rewind and go back to sort of a pre covid moment and if a
00:19:33
CEO, I said I really just think that we're all talking about
00:19:35
politics too much. It's a distraction.
00:19:38
I don't think it would have felt.
00:19:39
I don't think people would have paid much attention.
00:19:41
It just happened to come In this moment, we were dealing with a
00:19:43
global pandemic, sort of this like bizarre.
00:19:49
You know, the sort of like bizarre moment where the
00:19:51
government was had forced us all to stay in our homes which I
00:19:54
think most people could not have conceived of the United States
00:19:56
until that minute. And then like really important
00:20:00
conversations about race that were sparked by one of the most
00:20:03
horrifying viral videos of a person being killed by another
00:20:06
human being that any of us have ever seen in a really long time.
00:20:10
So in that moment to say, I'm just really think that is weird
00:20:14
to talk about politics. Felt weird in that moment we
00:20:17
needed outlets, right? And and yeah, that was one of
00:20:19
the first kind of communal things that had happened since
00:20:22
the beginning of the pandemic. I remember as the protests were
00:20:25
going, it was like that, in Tiger King, right?
00:20:28
We're yeah, exactly. Two, two sides of the same but
00:20:33
but you know what I mean? It was like, no, I'm not being
00:20:36
sarcastic. Things revealed, dark aspects of
00:20:39
our country. Think there's a degree to which
00:20:44
Armstrong never makes the politics tweet storm.
00:20:47
We're still getting to the same place.
00:20:48
Like there's just a nature that movement sort of burn really
00:20:52
hot, and then it's not like he convinced people.
00:20:55
I think that, I mean, obviously, you know, there are some CEOs
00:21:00
who, you know, set policies and cultural norms, that sort of
00:21:03
discouraged employee Revolution. But I do think there's a degree
00:21:07
to which these things just sort of play out and sort of The heat
00:21:12
the heat was going to when I was going to go right down, generate
00:21:15
taking credit for it or not is sort of outside of his control.
00:21:18
I am very empathetic to if it is true that at coinbase and
00:21:22
another company's there were intense and ongoing political
00:21:26
discussions talking about larger, social issues,
00:21:29
International politics, or whatever happening on slack that
00:21:32
actually does sound hellish, that sounds completely
00:21:35
destabilizing for a company and awful venue to do it and we can
00:21:38
maybe explain eighties live with that.
00:21:40
Well, I was going to say, I think I think The Daily Beast is
00:21:43
extensively reported on how happened at the New York Times,
00:21:46
so I can talk about it because it's public, but it was.
00:21:49
No fun is the distraction. Yeah, I'm not.
00:21:54
I'm not weighing in on the veracity of the arguments being
00:21:58
made. I'm not and the legitimacy of
00:22:01
them. I'm not criticize.
00:22:02
My criticizing my colleagues for having strong opinions and
00:22:05
sharing them in slack. I'm just saying that as it
00:22:08
became as I move from slack out into To the public sphere,
00:22:13
through the very dogged reporting of other reporters.
00:22:15
Like Max. Hey, why?
00:22:16
Haven't we hired, Max stuff. Anyway, so that happened, you
00:22:21
were times Ombudsman. It's at Michael Pittman.
00:22:24
It's really hard to argue that. That wasn't a distraction.
00:22:29
I mean, it's impossible to say that it wasn't a distraction.
00:22:33
Yeah. To the tech company.
00:22:34
Specifically part of this is also just inevitable and a
00:22:37
relation to this focus on Mission that we keep coming back
00:22:41
to Is the way that these companies were pitch to.
00:22:44
A lot of people is you can be a part of the change for good in
00:22:48
the world. And if you believe that you're
00:22:50
going to think that everything the company stands for has to be
00:22:53
reflection of all of your social values.
00:22:55
And if you've subsumed yourself to the company's Mission and
00:22:58
your personal mission, then when things are going on in the
00:23:00
world, that's your outlet to express it, like you've now
00:23:04
created like your soul communal, you know spot where these things
00:23:09
can be hashed out. And if you don't have anything
00:23:12
else then like of course it's going to explode on slack
00:23:15
because you've given up all other aspects of your Social
00:23:17
expression technique scented of media companies and Mission
00:23:21
driven company. You know, there's actually a
00:23:24
strong and valid comparison between what's happening in some
00:23:28
Silicon Valley companies, or some startups that were that
00:23:31
consider this themselves mission-driven in some respect,
00:23:35
and it was happening in some media companies.
00:23:37
I'll just keep General. Yeah, because if the companies
00:23:41
Have pitched themselves to their employees as a business.
00:23:45
That also does something for the greater good.
00:23:47
If you're sitting at home thinking a lot about, you know,
00:23:53
protests that are happening around the country in the wake
00:23:56
of George Floyd. We're thinking a lot about the
00:23:58
fact that we are even home trapped in our houses, because
00:24:01
of a global pandemic that we can't understand.
00:24:04
But people have very do varying opinions on whether or not
00:24:07
politicians are able to handle it.
00:24:09
That does speak to a sense of you know outrage and it also
00:24:14
speaks to a sense of what are we doing about it to some level?
00:24:17
I want a company to mission-driven right?
00:24:19
I should be cheering for. If companies want to take on
00:24:22
maybe as a shareholder, I wouldn't but as sort of a member
00:24:25
of the public it's good for companies to take on positive
00:24:29
missions. It's just probably clarify and
00:24:31
everybody involved if it's a narrow enough mission that
00:24:34
people can understand it otherwise you're spending a ton
00:24:36
of time soul-searching about it, all right.
00:24:39
Don't know how was your articulate, like, shouldn't we
00:24:41
as reporters be. Glad that Google at once said,
00:24:45
you know, do no evil because then you can hold them to that.
00:24:47
And that's better than a tobacco company that just says, like,
00:24:50
fuck you or whatever, I don't know.
00:24:53
The, I don't do disagree, or you're like so much on the level
00:24:57
like, oh, the world would just be better if like, profit
00:25:00
revamped. I just got distracted by, like,
00:25:02
the nuclear submarine issue, Espionage issue.
00:25:04
So, I just need to send like to emails really quick.
00:25:08
All right, okay, I can, I Deal with that question?
00:25:10
Yeah, yeah. I mean, Google has been slammed
00:25:12
for y'all. Now, we're at a low low quality
00:25:15
Harvard Business School, like is Mission.
00:25:18
I mean, it may be out of our depth, but that's why I was
00:25:21
trying to frame it or normatively just like, isn't it
00:25:24
good for the public at least if they hold themselves to that and
00:25:26
then we can hold hold them to some level of benevolence.
00:25:31
Yeah, I mean, at some point, everything is just a reflection
00:25:34
of are you happy with the products that you're
00:25:35
participating in and buying let's put like this.
00:25:38
I think it's It's a cheap shot at times for The Press to
00:25:42
anytime something happens that is, you know, moderate to
00:25:46
extremely evil in terms of Google's, you know, actions that
00:25:50
you say home that doesn't sound like, don't be evil.
00:25:52
Like I don't think it's a particularly intelligent way to
00:25:55
cover a company. And I don't know, I mean Eric
00:25:57
you wrote about boober through its most tumultuous period the
00:26:01
cause of some of its tumult. I don't know what the company.
00:26:04
Yeah, there. I don't think it was actually
00:26:07
talks. There's an issue with you.
00:26:09
Their points that we're going to be very big and very good at
00:26:11
what we do, right? Yeah.
00:26:13
I know. I don't think that was a case
00:26:16
where the company sort of oversold, how good it was and
00:26:20
then people were disappointed. I think, you know, just became
00:26:23
so untenable but you know, right as public Revolt.
00:26:28
Yeah. But missions are interesting
00:26:30
because I just think that you can say what you want to be
00:26:34
perceived as all you want, but the actions that you take and
00:26:38
just the industry that you're You're part of and the larger
00:26:40
capitalistic system that you participate in are going to
00:26:43
ultimately take contrived. I don't know.
00:26:45
I mean, like Nike like all these Brands like how what they tell
00:26:48
us about who they are is much? I mean, people aren't like, oh,
00:26:53
Nike is like a brand that manufacture, you know, it is
00:26:57
very much like how they articulate themselves and adds
00:27:00
like, I'm surprised, this is II. Don't think this is your real
00:27:03
view here because what they say about themselves is what people
00:27:07
tend to believe. I think people either like the
00:27:10
products or they don't, you know, I mean people like Amazon
00:27:13
because it gets them their stuff very quickly.
00:27:14
Right? What seems like a reasonable
00:27:16
price Facebook when they like it.
00:27:17
It's because they can communicate with their friends.
00:27:20
Google is like a very good tool to find the stuff that you want.
00:27:23
And with YouTube, you know, an entertainment platform and then
00:27:27
you know, we can go on down the list.
00:27:29
So yeah, I agree. I mean products terribly because
00:27:32
yeah, yeah, and I don't think that necessarily needs to be oh
00:27:35
Apple, we didn't mention mean, apple is like they make stuff.
00:27:38
You'd like, like it's as physical.
00:27:40
Good of any of these things and people think they work well and
00:27:44
they look nice. And I don't think it necessarily
00:27:47
like the fact that these things are are not connected to a
00:27:50
larger Mission necessary needs to be evil.
00:27:52
And and I and and like a sign of hypocrisy.
00:27:54
I just think like for a reporter.
00:27:56
Anytime you're covering a company, you have to, you just
00:27:59
have to move outside of that particular frame pretty quickly
00:28:03
because it's just not that until in intelligent.
00:28:05
Like, when you're talking to sources and, you know, So if
00:28:08
you're covering ghoul, you're like mmm.
00:28:10
That sounds like, that could be kind of easier.
00:28:12
Yeah. Just just isn't isn't that
00:28:14
useful? But I do think that, you know,
00:28:16
like we were mentioning earlier episode, we're just at a period
00:28:19
now where these companies their influence their power is never
00:28:23
at a greater Point than has ever been and the implications of
00:28:26
that are vast, which ties it back to Brian Armstrong's main
00:28:29
problem, being he has to listen to General people on Twitter,
00:28:32
right? I mean, if he was just talking
00:28:34
to his customers, they would have different complaints, then
00:28:37
sort of them, whatever. He's probably feeling when he
00:28:40
opens up his Twitter feed and so then it makes his CEOs get too
00:28:45
much criticism stuff is just like, don't read it.
00:28:48
If you don't want, you don't want to see it, pay somebody to
00:28:51
read it and tell you what, what actually matters, you know.
00:28:54
I it's amazing that our media diets.
00:28:56
I guess shape our brain so much and he even the CEO of, you
00:29:00
know, this huge company is subject to that.
00:29:03
So you know, we're recording this on a Sunday and the VP of
00:29:07
communications at Facebook Look, Nick Clegg, former lib Dem prime
00:29:13
minister. What was he?
00:29:14
He was like a high-ranking, British officials embarrassing
00:29:16
that I don't know the specific name, but, you know, he's making
00:29:19
the rounds and getting kind of browbeaten by anchors at all the
00:29:22
major cable networks over the Facebook whistleblowers,
00:29:25
testimony, that happened last week, and I'm seeing a lot of
00:29:29
complaints by reporters some reporters.
00:29:32
I mean, I can mention, Kara Swisher, specifically, she has
00:29:34
so many followers is very angry that he didn't.
00:29:38
Speak to her. And, you know, the interviews
00:29:40
that Facebook is doing right now are not with the beat reporters
00:29:44
when I say Facebook. I mean, like, you know, zoc and
00:29:46
or Nick Clegg. And people at that Echelon are
00:29:48
not with the beat reporters. It's with these National cable
00:29:53
news figures. I mean, do you think that's a
00:29:55
valid criticism? Do you think it's important and
00:29:59
why they're doing it? I'm sorry, I'm back.
00:30:00
Sorry sorry. I've no, I understand why
00:30:04
they're why they're doing it because they need to make their
00:30:06
appeal to the General Public. Because they're not afraid of
00:30:10
Regulation per se. They're afraid of people like,
00:30:12
you and me no longer using their products.
00:30:15
They're afraid of everybody deleting WhatsApp.
00:30:16
So their appeal needs to go to the world of WhatsApp users.
00:30:21
It doesn't need to go to, you know, the people who read
00:30:25
business process to read Tech, press, they, whether if you're
00:30:29
the I'm not saying I like the strategy and I'm not saying that
00:30:31
I think the strategy is good. I'm just saying I really
00:30:34
understand the logic behind it there.
00:30:36
They need to appeal to your mom too.
00:30:40
Who hates Mark Zuckerberg right now.
00:30:41
Right. And then areas non-defined
00:30:43
reasons so they need to go on. Good Morning America and make
00:30:46
that argument for why you don't have to hate Mark Zuckerberg.
00:30:49
And why the products aren't driving teenagers to kill
00:30:51
themselves and making that argument to like the business
00:30:55
pages of the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal is your
00:30:58
mom reading that know, right. Exactly.
00:31:01
Right. But it's beat reporter or like
00:31:03
as Savvy instead of reporters. I do think it makes sense to
00:31:06
cheer for Facebook to get Give interviews to the most
00:31:09
sophisticated reporters and and yes, they're tactically going to
00:31:14
try to give it to sort of simplistic TV, reporters.
00:31:18
And I don't make sense for a care of.
00:31:21
This is what the rough sea report.
00:31:23
I don't think it's because the teeth, they think, the TV
00:31:25
reporters, don't know what they're doing.
00:31:27
I think they're thinking about the audience sure.
00:31:29
Either way. It's Kara were to do the
00:31:31
interview on Good Morning, America.
00:31:33
I think they would do the interview with Cara if Cara work
00:31:36
to the interview. And you know, like a widely
00:31:40
watch platform on 60 Minutes. I think they would do it with
00:31:44
her, right. But TV is a different kind of
00:31:46
way I can print like print the wind, you still sort of have to
00:31:49
convince her report earlier saying something smart since
00:31:52
it's passing through them. Well II don't think that all TV
00:31:56
is stupid. I don't I just don't agree with
00:31:58
that argument. You're really think it's
00:31:59
audience. I think if you want Tom's mom to
00:32:03
not delete her Instagram account, you're not going to
00:32:05
reach her in the business pages of the New York.
00:32:08
Times you were you were going to reach her on 60 Minutes or
00:32:12
you'll reach her on wherever the hell they've been talking.
00:32:14
You know, if it's a thing, it's more audience and of course, you
00:32:19
know, we saw this, we said a politician.
00:32:21
So funny, because I think your take on this is really different
00:32:23
when politicians to the Eric but we've seen politicians do it as
00:32:26
well. In ways that infuriated me.
00:32:30
Anyway, no, I always said it's good.
00:32:33
I said it was good for them to do ferns but he won't sit for
00:32:36
the Washington Post. It's like what's Or problem
00:32:38
Obama, that sucks. But like I do understand that, I
00:32:42
understand why even if I deeply disagree with it.
00:32:45
Well, I'm politics. I'm were skeptical of a lot of
00:32:49
the beat reporters than on. Well, I remember getting into an
00:32:53
argument about that earlier. Oh, no, sorry, yes, softball
00:33:02
interview. I don't know.
00:33:05
Yeah, is Ashley Parker. You think I'm doing no.
00:33:08
Is it a is? It Tony ROM, you think would
00:33:11
throw those softballs they need to do you, are you telling me
00:33:14
that Tech reporters have a better reputation for not being
00:33:17
softball reporters? And political reporters are
00:33:20
watching in post. I just think, you know, in a
00:33:23
presidential campaign reporters want to frame the story around
00:33:27
the storylines that they're like, breaking news on.
00:33:30
I mean, if you saw enjoy way better student, Do this.
00:33:35
Right. I mean they do but you know I
00:33:37
just believe in some of the criticisms of Facebook more than
00:33:40
I do. Sort of the angles played
00:33:43
against. That's right.
00:33:44
Because you hate it. When people critique Obama has
00:33:47
he worked on his campaign as an intern?
00:33:51
Yeah. But I certainly I believe in
00:33:55
Obama. Like yeah, I'm down here.
00:34:00
Next weekend. We can give Eric work.
00:34:03
Evil. I want be true.
00:34:05
Is to get thoughtful interviews, occasionally.
00:34:09
I think that's good in politics and Tech.
00:34:11
I believe that's important. And I think it's important that
00:34:14
the institutions, whether it's a campaign or the apparatus of a
00:34:18
company respond and engage with reporters, I couldn't believe in
00:34:22
that more strongly, but you're just saying that it's really
00:34:25
unlikely that a political reporter will get anything out.
00:34:28
I just think reporting with them.
00:34:30
Whereas you think that orders? Where's he think a tech reporter
00:34:32
will actually get something out of Mark Zuckerberg sitting with
00:34:34
them? But you don't think that a
00:34:36
political reporter will get something out of, you know, a
00:34:40
politician sitting with them. I agree with.
00:34:43
I think in both cases with Zuckerberg and with a
00:34:47
presidential candidate there, they end up going for like your
00:34:52
get trying to get bad quotes. It's very similar to TV.
00:34:55
I think, what's actually more substantive in a lot of these
00:34:58
cases is that like to press secretary or that the actual
00:35:02
company apparatus is engaging with like the factual responses
00:35:06
and it's not so much. I like a single interview that's
00:35:11
like the most important as as opposed to sort of like good
00:35:14
faith sort of engagement on on the factual reporting.
00:35:18
I don't know you disagree with that.
00:35:21
I just think that that undermines the argument you just
00:35:24
made but I do agree with. I just do.
00:35:29
I think that you're sort of the way that you distinguish me in
00:35:33
the tech press in the political process.
00:35:34
Doesn't really make any sense to me.
00:35:37
I think that anytime you're covering a beat, there are
00:35:42
questions about how you're going to approach.
00:35:44
Tough Quest tough lines of inquiry but I just, I guess I
00:35:49
just don't understand This distinction we make between, you
00:35:54
know, this ability for a tech reporter to really get a lot out
00:35:58
of an interview with Mark Zuckerberg, but that you just
00:36:01
don't think of political reporter could get a lot out of
00:36:03
my Canada but I can, I can I interject here just to ask like
00:36:07
what is get a lot out of in these circumstances and
00:36:10
demeaning because you know, these people are incredibly
00:36:13
coach, the best you could get from them is a slip-up is is a
00:36:16
Mark Zuckerberg actually on Cara's podcast a couple years
00:36:19
back, making a truly awful. Comparison about Lala fala good.
00:36:22
I think, was on purpose. I mean, I write that was right.
00:36:25
Wasn't even a slip-up that was just.
00:36:31
It sounds to me, like, what is that?
00:36:36
Political reporters will get played and that Tech reporters?
00:36:39
No, no. I we're both getting played and
00:36:43
that political reporters, just go for like this sort of like
00:36:45
crass, gotcha, but Tech reporters would never do that.
00:36:49
Oh no, I think they both go for the crash.
00:36:51
Gotcha. I think it's I don't think
00:36:53
there's a huge amount of value. And you know, whether it's a
00:36:55
national news reporter or whatever, you know, like a TV
00:36:58
anchor or morning news anchor or a tech reporter doing the
00:37:01
interview with Mark Zuckerberg. I don't think there's going to
00:37:03
be a lot gain from it other than whatever their coaching allows
00:37:07
for if they're well trained. They will say things that are
00:37:10
kind of meaningless and deflect from the quote, unquote hard
00:37:13
questions. And if they're not well trained,
00:37:14
they'll say something stupid. That makes maybe the new cycle
00:37:17
lasts for a couple days longer but I I just don't like the
00:37:20
great reporting that is come out, that has held Facebook and
00:37:22
all these other tech companies feet to the fire have come not
00:37:25
through these sort of exactly wasn't a woman.
00:37:27
Run interview with Mark Zuckerberg.
00:37:29
Exactly what I see people like care who I respect.
00:37:34
You know and other reporters saying oh they're not giving me
00:37:37
the interview I just think, okay, that's their choice
00:37:40
because they're running a press campaign right now.
00:37:42
Exactly, exactly. And it's so much more from
00:37:44
getting people leaking to you and and, and getting them all
00:37:47
messed up that way. Then like Bitching and moaning
00:37:50
on Twitter about the fact that you didn't get the interview.
00:37:52
I don't care. I don't know if I'd call it
00:37:53
bitching and moaning but I mean because I understand the
00:37:55
frustration when it comes to campaign, reporters are much
00:37:58
more skeptical. It's because a lot of with the
00:38:00
reporters are doing there is saying which stories matter and
00:38:06
that fundamentally the Democratic process is there's no
00:38:08
like super sophisticated version of it.
00:38:11
There's like there's what the elites thinks is important.
00:38:14
There's what regular people think is important to
00:38:16
participating with beat reporters on when reporting
00:38:20
you're giving it up to a certain set of people to say, oh, we're
00:38:23
obsessed with Hillary Clinton's emails or whatever when that's
00:38:26
just their view on what storylines matter the most.
00:38:29
So I'm just much less deferential to campaign
00:38:32
reporters about what stories matter that I am on something
00:38:35
like the justice department or Facebook, where there's a level
00:38:38
of like understanding an organization.
00:38:41
The technicalities where I really do, respect the be
00:38:44
reporters for really having a sophisticated View.
00:38:46
And so I would like to support them and having more.
00:38:49
Information to continue to develop that and I believe in
00:38:53
that sort of elitism, that's my full View.
00:38:57
The elitism of reporters who are very knowledgeable about their
00:39:00
beats, that are not covering specific interest, like an
00:39:03
academic to be but like, I can't paint.
00:39:06
I just don't think you can have that.
00:39:07
Like, sure, if it's like the factual matter of what's
00:39:10
happening on a campaign, do I trust the campaign?
00:39:13
We're, there's more to know on a personal level, but do I trust
00:39:16
them more to decide that the Personnel level stuff of a
00:39:20
campaign, is what we should care about most.
00:39:21
Like should we have written Jimmy, Carter off more as much
00:39:25
as he was because they were sort of.
00:39:27
Of incompetent, or should we have cared more about sort of
00:39:29
the general moral Vector of what he stood for relative to his
00:39:33
opponents? Like the media is great at
00:39:36
getting us to focus on weird competence stuff over the actual
00:39:39
moral character of political campaigns.
00:39:42
And that's why I'm super - on campaign report.
00:39:45
Yes, I think we are still torn up about the 1980.
00:39:49
Carter re-election campaign I didn't see the podcast go in
00:39:52
this direction, you but you were not born.
00:39:57
But Nikki is the only one I think was around to that cat is.
00:40:02
Yeah. Yeah, no morning in America,
00:40:05
with hard to hard to overcome. I think we can all agree.
00:40:08
We can agree with that. Anyway.
00:40:10
So we've really, really, well, I really was put on a back right
00:40:14
there and I needed to sort of come up with my full full view.
00:40:18
Well, I was worried that Katie when she was gonna come back
00:40:20
from her, call was going to tell us like we have 10 minutes
00:40:22
before the nuclear subs ballistic.
00:40:27
Missiles. So I hate to cut the episode off
00:40:29
early but your bunker is there? No, just some spies, I don't
00:40:34
know where we go from there. A back to the reading text
00:40:37
reporters other than if you're working at a tech company and
00:40:40
you reach out to a reporter and say I would like to thank you.
00:40:44
Yeah. Very different reception.
00:40:47
Yeah. Well we're you know, like we
00:40:49
said last week or two weeks ago now it's like we're in the age
00:40:51
of whistleblowers, you know. There was like a handbook that
00:40:54
came out last week led by I think the Pinterest
00:40:58
whistleblower that are trying to encourage employees, you know,
00:41:01
or instruct them on the right way to become a whistleblower,
00:41:04
you too can become a whistleblower Madam.
00:41:06
And I, I I'm interested to see where that's going to go,
00:41:10
because it all to me, like, rolls back into this topic that
00:41:13
we've been hitting on over and over again.
00:41:15
The last couple of weeks, which is like whistleblowers are or
00:41:18
leakers, whatever want to call them, are the results of a
00:41:21
section of a Workforce that is not happy with the way the
00:41:25
company is run and do not Leave internally that it can be fixed.
00:41:30
That there are the infrastructure in place for
00:41:32
these things to be repaired. And some of them may be just
00:41:34
want fame, you know, we can debate that, but it seems like
00:41:38
the upsides of that are much less than the downside of.
00:41:42
Because once you get everything, what unquote like you don't want
00:41:45
to work again. So your Snowden and Russia like
00:41:48
it's manner or Chelsea Manning in prison.
00:41:50
That's not great. I mean, I wanted to make another
00:41:54
Point quickly. I mean, the just Just sort of
00:41:58
how this latest Brian Armstrong tweet about, you know, the
00:42:03
whining. One could come off well, in the
00:42:05
future. I mean, I think like, in the few
00:42:08
know, we could look back on it as just sort of Things are too -
00:42:13
they're sort of Relentless, like, sort of whining about tech
00:42:18
companies and it's like not doing anyone any good, which I,
00:42:22
I mean, with the Facebook stuff. It's like, I'm personally
00:42:24
exhausted of the stories I, but the problem is that, just like
00:42:31
Facebook is not Democratic and so that the only way to really
00:42:36
change Facebook is for such a heavy-handed Relentless Focus.
00:42:41
Ice on it that then something happens.
00:42:44
And it's like not enjoyable. Like to me the solution, I mean,
00:42:46
I don't necessarily want companies to be Democratic.
00:42:48
I don't know what the solution is.
00:42:49
But the problem just in terms of like the TV show on Twitter is
00:42:55
that these things take so long, you have to like be so
00:42:57
heavy-handed about trying to change them even though like
00:43:01
everybody who's in the know is like tired of hearing about
00:43:03
Facebook or I don't know what your parents have a question for
00:43:05
you? I mean, do you, do you think
00:43:07
that given what's happening on Facebook?
00:43:10
You know, venture capitalist and Boards in the future.
00:43:13
It might be less willing to give the CEO 100% control and I could
00:43:18
to how many, how many of these problems would have gone away
00:43:21
already? When you say what happens, if a
00:43:23
foot? Is something wrong.
00:43:41
I mean, my right reason and your until we get way more back.
00:43:44
Like I think the know some of the other people on the board,
00:43:46
you know? But if they were the true, truly
00:43:49
in control, there would be much more sort of effort, I think to
00:43:53
get them personally. Accountable, if there's
00:43:57
anything, we've learned from the Facebook trajectory these days,
00:43:59
is that venture capitalist can invest in a company, give total
00:44:01
control to the founder. The founder can become and make
00:44:04
them insanely wealthy, and then you can spend the rest of your
00:44:07
time complaining on Twitter about how no one likes.
00:44:09
You don't. And what went wrong in the
00:44:11
process, you're like sounds like it's a pretty good trade off for
00:44:15
movies, what their personal incentives are.
00:44:16
I mean, that does, of course, bring us out here, okay, that
00:44:22
does bring us to that very fateful board meeting between.
00:44:26
Yeah, the meeting is the moment. Post credit scene.
00:44:44
What was it? Five years ago?
00:44:46
The core unsealed these messages between Mark Zuckerberg and then
00:44:50
board member Mark, andreasen. Whereas, Zuckerberg was trying
00:44:53
to negotiate, basically, a class of stock that would allow him to
00:44:58
do both sell and make a lot of money, but retain control.
00:45:02
And I think that these text messages are so so present
00:45:08
because this is what allowed Zuckerberg to maintain control.
00:45:12
And And if Eric is correct and the lesson to be taken from,
00:45:16
this is as a board member, you no longer have to have any
00:45:19
responsibilities, and you can make a lot of money by creating
00:45:23
like a complete dictatorship within a company with no board
00:45:26
oversight. That's horrifying.
00:45:28
Marc, Andreessen is supposed to be looking out for shareholders
00:45:31
and extracting. Anything from Mark Zuckerberg in
00:45:37
terms of negotiations over his voting control but from the
00:45:40
text, it does feel like to me That and reason is clearly just
00:45:45
trying to help Zuckerberg and Coach him through it.
00:45:48
So, from from Business Insider, when the special committee
00:45:52
approved the stock reclassification in mid-april
00:45:55
Andreessen, cryptically texted Zuckerberg quote, the cat's in
00:45:59
the bag and the bags in the river Zuckerberg then out, is
00:46:03
that mean that cat's dead and dries and wrote mission
00:46:06
accomplished and thus, the First Amendment and democracy were
00:46:11
destroyed. That's what the name is created.
00:46:17
So it's dead cat, right? Which is easier to say.
00:46:21
Alright, I'm hearing literal would be chopped up and I think
00:46:24
I've really overstayed my babysitting time of the Kelso.
00:46:27
I'm probably have to lie. Sounds good.
00:46:30
All right. Right.
00:46:31
Thanks everyone. Goodbye.
00:46:34
So work on Sally, goodbye. Goodbye.
00:46:43
Goodbye. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.
00:46:46
Goodbye.